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Quite frankly as far as I am concerned those laws are not worth the paper they are written on, None of those pointy headed persons know anything about the stuff and its use for bees anyhow. I am quite sure if you used anhydrous oxalic acid and it sublimed into the hive it would work just as well as the dihydrate, however just look up the stuff in Amazon and look at its price. It would be cheaper to use the amitraz based stuff.
 

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Purely from curiosity, but given the ease and least cost of applying oxalic acid by dribble, why is it that vapour applications seem to be preferred, considerably more costly and for the applicator with a greater personal risk. As I said, just curious.
I use formic pro strips as it gets under the cap and kills mites there also.
 

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Right now,one hive consisting of two 10 frame deeps of an Ohio swarm of muttsutts.
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I use formic pro strips as it gets under the cap and kills mites there also.
Yes it does but I too treated with Formic Pro strips in last of Sept. and the beginning of October with the 20 day treatment using one strip each and had a mite count of 21 on the sticky board afterwards. Thought I was good to go for winter until I did an OAV a week ago on Wed. and counted 392 mites on the sticky board. I just did a second OAV yesterday, which is a week later. Now I feel compelled to do a third treatment, next week.
 

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I use formic pro strips as it gets under the cap and kills mites there also.
... and the queen too, if you're not careful. :(

With regard to the expense issue of VOA - some beekeepers buy their hives, extra boxes and even their frames ready-made, and appear to readily accept the extra cost involved. Others build their own woodenware at negligible cost (except for the labour involved, of course).

If you're the kind of person who's happy enough to buy woodenware ready-made - then a vapouriser can be purchased for much the same cost as some beekeeping woodenware. So I don't see any reason for complaint there - it's just another piece of beekeeping kit which needs to be acquired. Thinks - maybe beekeeping associations could loan-out a vapouriser, in the same way as they do an extractor ?

If you're the kind of person who prefers to DIY their own woodenware, then the chances are fairly high that you'll also be capable of making your own vapouriser at next-to-zero or minimal coat. Methods include diesel glow-plugs, band-heaters - and I see no reason why - with a little ingenuity - even a vehicle cigarette lighter couldn't be used. :)

Once the vapouriser is made (or purchased), then the cost per treatment is totally insignificant (especially when using technical-grade OA, which can readily be purchased in bulk - I buy 3kg at a time, enough for several years).

The reasons I use VOA and not Dribble are two-fold: European testing figures over many years have shown VOA to be significantly more effective than dribble. And, I do not want to be opening-up my beehives in mid-winter, exposing the bees at that time of the year - while I trickle a cold water-based solution all over them.

Once you have acquired the 'right' (for you) piece of kit and have established an appropriate timetable/routine for using it, mites cease to remain the mega-problem it appears to still be for so many people. Dosing mites then becomes a routine background beekeeping task, and the devastating effects of varroa no longer need to remain a cause of constant anxiety or a focus of much attention.
LJ
 

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Yes it does but I too treated with Formic Pro strips in last of Sept. and the beginning of October with the 20 day treatment using one strip each and had a mite count of 21 on the sticky board afterwards. Thought I was good to go for winter until I did an OAV a week ago on Wed. and counted 392 mites on the sticky board. I just did a second OAV yesterday, which is a week later. Now I feel compelled to do a third treatment, next week.
Too many people fail to follow up to evaluate after treating and to assure that rebound has not occurred. It is not an evil conspiracy, it just is as it is and I think better education is the answer. The providers of treatments perhaps dont want to talk about the fact that one or more repeats may be necessary; worry that it may affect sales perhaps. For whatever the reason there is too much complacency about making certain that counts REMAIN near zero thru the fall till the bees are done flying for the season. No need for this to come as a sad surprise.
Wil-7 did more than the common amount of diligence but even more appears to have been needed so I am in no way slagging him(y)
 

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Too many people fail to follow up to evaluate after treating and to assure that rebound has not occurred. It is not an evil conspiracy, it just is as it is and I think better education is the answer. The providers of treatments perhaps dont want to talk about the fact that one or more repeats may be necessary; worry that it may affect sales perhaps. For whatever the reason there is too much complacency about making certain that counts REMAIN near zero thru the fall till the bees are done flying for the season. No need for this to come as a sad surprise.
Wil-7 did more than the common amount of diligence but even more appears to have been needed so I am in no way slagging him(y)
Thank you, Frank
By the way, Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
Ray
 

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I seem to recall reading that dribble is hard on queens, and OAV doesn't have this downside. I don't know this from experience.
Dribble is, in my experience , much harder on the bees. About ten years back I ran a controlled experiment on 84 hives treating half with OAD and not treating the other half at all. 54% of the OAD-treated hives did not survive the winter, vs. 23% of the untreated hives. No one has ever been able to adequately explain why this happened, and until I know that, I will never use OAD again. I do use OAV as part of my mite management program and losses in the past few years have been 3% or less. I treat in fall around Thanksgiving, when the bees are pretty much broodless in my area, and again in late January/early February before they really begin to brood up.
 

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If one is to dribble oa it is best when incorporated with other ipm to increase effectiveness due to the risks of frequent applications . Thus vapor accells by being more flexible and less demanding of accuracy and timing IE. You can just hit them again in a few days⁶ Oa dribble and vapor both are lacking when addressing mites in sealed brood amitraz and formic acid both address this creating the potential for a one and done treatment. Again both have their own drawbacks and require management to offset those drawbacks
 

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When making up your dribble mixture I believe you have to be very careful not to exceed and OA percentage pf 3.5 to 4%. From what I have read in the past is that if you get your sums wrong and the OA percentage gets higher than it should be it can be disasterous to the treated colony. Not so with Vapor. Now about amitraz, ask Bob Binnie if he was happy with the results of something like $30,000 for Apivar treatments in his operation. I hear of more and more cases where the Amitraz basd treatments are failing.Formic acid is the only Treatment that is supposed to kill mites in brood, Apivar has to remain in the hive for two brood cycles as it only effects mites that are out of the brood. In that case OAV every 4 or 5 days over two brood cycles would be just as effective as Apivar with no residue left in thecomb either.
 

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Dribble is, in my experience , much harder on the bees. About ten years back I ran a controlled experiment on 84 hives treating half with OAD and not treating the other half at all. 54% of the OAD-treated hives did not survive the winter, vs. 23% of the untreated hives. No one has ever been able to adequately explain why this happened, and until I know that, I will never use OAD again.
As it has been pointed out a couple of times above - OAD is fine for summer bees.
The summer bees are disposable and far cheaper than the winter bees (per a bee relative to the colony size).

One needs to understand this very important point.
Be gentle on the winter bees.
But can afford some collateral damage on the summer bees.
Combination of a brood break and OAD is sufficiently effective where a brood break is rather routine event while making summer propagation.
 

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When making up your dribble mixture I believe you have to be very careful not to exceed and OA percentage pf 3.5 to 4%. From what I have read in the past is that if you get your sums wrong and the OA percentage gets higher than it should be it can be disasterous to the treated colony. Not so with Vapor. Now about amitraz, ask Bob Binnie if he was happy with the results of something like $30,000 for Apivar treatments in his operation. I hear of more and more cases where the Amitraz basd treatments are failing.Formic acid is the only Treatment that is supposed to kill mites in brood, Apivar has to remain in the hive for two brood cycles as it only effects mites that are out of the brood. In that case OAV every 4 or 5 days over two brood cycles would be just as effective as Apivar with no residue left in thecomb either.
 

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So, we've all heard the statistic, "80% of the mites in hives are hidden in sealed brood".
Is that true?
And how could we design a test to find out?
The Honey Bee Lab at Oregon State University conducted tests in 2019 and came up with some interesting results.
They did so by carefully evaluating hives, killing the entire hive and then painstakingly dissecting each and every brood cell and every bee.
Of course, as we would have all guessed, the proportion varies with the season.
And of course, condition of the hive, such as after queen issues.
But the most interesting finding as it relates to this discussion was that the proportion is more like 60% capped in cells after summer solstice.
The comment is often made, " OAV is not very effective when brood is present".
I disagree! Presenting an effective dose of OAV to 40% of the mites in a hive should be very a very significant treatment.
 

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In that video from the Bee Wellness group note the coparisons on the miticides used, 1st OAV, mite fall only no counts, and too many treatments taken to stop mites falls All the others alcohol mite counts, and when one does not fit in then its a mistake with the wrong hive.Also when OAE does not work with the trials from Georgia it has to be from mite migration. In the OAV tests there were a hell of a lot of mites killed even though the treatments were spaced quite far apart, so maybe using the same words, must have been from mite migration.
 

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Dribble is, in my experience , much harder on the bees. About ten years back I ran a controlled experiment on 84 hives treating half with OAD and not treating the other half at all. 54% of the OAD-treated hives did not survive the winter, vs. 23% of the untreated hives. No one has ever been able to adequately explain why this happened, and until I know that, I will never use OAD again. I do use OAV as part of my mite management program and losses in the past few years have been 3% or less. I treat in fall around Thanksgiving, when the bees are pretty much broodless in my area, and again in late January/early February before they really begin to brood up.
The answer may lie in the carrier you used - sugar syrup, water, or glycerin.
I have had good results with glycerin as the carrier.
 

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What is the ratio of glycerin to water for the carrier?
I follow ROliver mix suggestions, about 40% glycerin in water by volume.
It is medium hot mix so feel that I have room for error on the hot side, and have slightly altered the basic formula to the hot side on occasion without issue.
I normally mix up a gallon to treat about 70 hives with approx. 5ml per seam and use my 1 gallon
sprayer. Add the OA to the water that solution to the glycerin, or OA to the water then add glycerin to that solution.

My mix is 170 g OA (wood bleach) + 2.25 liters warm water + 1.5 liters vegetable glycerin.
0r 170 g OA (wood bleach) + 77 fl oz (US) warm water + 53 fl oz (US) vegetable glycerin.
Yields about 1 US gallon treats about 70 hives.
(The wood bleach container I buy is a 12 oz container (340 g) and will yield 2 gallons of finished solution using the above formula.)

From his site: Oxalic Acid Treatment Table - Scientific Beekeeping

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