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Where do you get the impression that OAV isn't effective with brood?
Does it go thru the capped brood? that is what I was referring to sorry if I did not make myself clear. Treating with brood can be done with all of the mite control methods but most of them will not be very effective unless they are done repeatedly simply because they do not kill the mites under the capped brood.

As for the cost of $20-$30 a year I was not referring to the yearly cost but the cost of the initial equipment to purchase.

Arguing about cost while using your own financial status as a benchmark of affordability is disregarding another person's situation. If a beekeeper cannot afford the initial set up, or choses to use other methods because of the lower costs, and responsibly kills their mites and keeps them in control they are neither cheap nor uniformed.
 

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OAV don't penetrate the cappings, but are still just as effective as other treatments, with the right methodology and regime. That latter part is crucial - if one doesn't do OAV it just right, - it may not be as effective as other options.

Also - formic / apivar/ hopguard/ thymol etc is extremely expensive. I was shocked at the price of a pack of formic acid, same with hopguard, and thymol, apivar etc. Unless we buy a vat of the stuff, which is a bad idea.

Also - I wear safety glasses and an N95 mask - that's about $15 for the glasses ,and $ 5 for the mask. It's not vapor,it's a dust - so a respirator isn't needed.

beekeeping hasn't really been pitched as affordable.
 

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Randy Oliver used OAD as a primary treatment for many years. I am assuming his operation still does. If OAD was not efficient and effective for his operation, I am certain he would not use it. Ian Steepler and Bob Binnie use OAV.

As to what makes the most financial sense, it seems like that would largely depend on the nature of the operation.
 

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Randy Oliver used OAD as a primary treatment for many years. I am assuming his operation still does. If OAD was not efficient and effective for his operation, I am certain he would not use it. Ian Steepler and Bob Binnie use OAV.
Yes Randy does still use the OAD and prefers it over the OAV. Here is a recent video that shows Randy Oliver's numbers on the efficacy of OAV. At about 6:55.
 

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ok so
OAD is short hand for oxalic acid "dehydrate" not "dribble", there are lot of old studies using dribble and some newer ones using vapor that uses this short hand, and it can confuse people

I run a lot of dribble, it kills more mites brood on as it kills for about 2 weeks and vapor about 2 days... it gets the emerging mites a single vapor would miss.. not in the video randy has stated that brood on a dribble is = to 3 vapor treatments

When a hive is brood less vapor kills a few more mites and is a bit easier on the bees so its my winter go to... you don't want to be dribbling winter bees 2x. summer bees... no big thing..
the study the every one quotes on mites not having OAD resistance was at a commercial yard with 54 hives that used dribble as their sole mite treatment for 8 years advrageing 8 treatments a year
here is a year in that yard (keep in mind seasons or fliped for most of us)
Font Rectangle Parallel Number Screenshot



beekeepers... if it smokes of fogs, or goes on a blue shop towels they are like moths to a flame and it lives on the internet forever

small yard 8 nucs and a full hive in under 5 min with dribble....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3cKxGR5By0
I would have gotten 1 with OVA once I made the extra trip form the truck for the battery and gotten things heated up

I realy don't get the dribble vs vapor.... I use them both at the times they are most expedient and efftive for me.
 

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Yes Randy does still use the OAD and prefers it over the OAV.
You are in cold climate zone and you have opportunity to treat effectively with multiple OAV treatments in fall. Than again, you do not have supers and treatments with OAD in spring and summer are simple for you.

-OAD require precision concentration and dose.
-With OAD only approach you will have mites all spring and summer and don't misjudge situation in fall. (Note the spike in Table 1: From 0.4% at (4.) it goes to 8.1% at(5.).)
-OAD is hurting bees and they probably will be less calm.
 

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I run a lot of dribble, it kills more mites brood on as it kills for about 2 weeks and vapor about 2 days... it gets the emerging mites a single vapor would miss.. not in the video randy has stated that brood on a dribble is = to 3 vapor treatments
That is something I did not know, but is good to hear. It would explain why here in the north the OA dribble is used close to wrap up in the fall. Going into the brood nest very late in the year to check that all the brood is hatched is not the best idea at that time, so if there was a little bit of unhatched brood there would possibly be a chance of still killing those emerging mites.
 

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If I was considering dribble I would explore using glycerine to replace the sugar of the liquid. Supposedly less damaging to the bees since they do not ingest it as readily as sugar. It has better and longer lasting cling effect too. Not sure about the EPA approval as a dribble; it may be in the same category as the towels with OA and Glycerin that Randy is working on.
 

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If I was considering dribble I would explore using glycerine to replace the sugar of the liquid. Supposedly less damaging to the bees since they do not ingest it as readily as sugar. It has better and longer lasting cling effect too. Not sure about the EPA approval as a dribble; it may be in the same category as the towels with OA and Glycerin that Randy is working on.
In my experience OA dribble using glycerin as the carrier is more effective, less damaging, clings longer to the bee, is longer lasting, and can be used multiple times a year without any noticeable damage to the bees than using OA with sugar syrup as the carrier.
 

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OAD is short hand for oxalic acid "dehydrate" not "dribble", there are lot of old studies using dribble and some newer ones using vapor that uses this short hand, and it can confuse people
Can you offer a reference that OAD always refers to oxalic acid dehydrate?
I do not believe the acronym OAD is specific to oxalic acid dehydrate and all acronyms needs to be identified in context at the beginning of the conversation as to what it identifies.
 

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Can you offer a reference that OAD always refers to oxalic acid dehydrate
there is no "always" or "never" in beekeeping,

but
Other Names:
OAD
Oxiric acid
Ethanedionic acid
Acidum oxalicum
The following abbreviations will be used for oxalic acid: OA, when referring to oxalic acid forms nonspecifically; OAD, when referring specifically to oxalic acid dihydrate (a solid); and AOA when referring to specifically to anhydrous oxalic acid (also a solid). Solutions prepared with OAD will be called OAD solutions. Solutions prepared with AOA will be called AOA solutions. The EPA’s registration 48 decision (EPA 2015a) identifies OA by the CAS Number 144-62-7 (corresponding to anhydrous forms) but also refers to OAD by name (which is characterized elsewhere by CAS Number 6153-56-6). As applied, OAD and AOA starting material becomes the same material (either when dissolved in liquid or vaporized); however, the amount of oxalic acid applied can vary depending on the form used. All forms of OA are included within the scope of this report, although OAD is the form used in EPA-approved products

Oxalic acid dihydrate (OAD) is one of the most important organic acids used for the control of Varroa destructor. It has been known to be effective against the parasite since the end of the 20th century [1]. The European Group for Integrated Varroa Control developed OAD for the final application stage in beekeeping [2,3]. Three different application methods of OAD exist: trickling, spraying and evaporation

The applicant applied for the following indication: For the treatment of varroosis (Varroa destructor) of honey bees (Apis mellifera) in brood-free colonies. The active substance of Oxybee is oxalic acid dihydrate (OAD), an antiparasitic substance used in honey bees for treatment of varroosis. The target species is honey bees. Oxybee is a powder and solution for bee-hive dispersion, which when mixed contains 39.4 mg OAD/ml. The product is available in two pack sizes. The smaller is a 500 ml bottle containing 17.5 g OAD (in 375 g of solution) which is packaged with one 125 g sachet of (flavoured) sucrose. The larger pack size consists of a 1000 ml bottle containing 35 g OAD (in 750 g of solution) packaged with two 125 g sachets of (flavoured) sucrose. Prior to use, the sucrose powder is added to the solution (containing the active substance) in the bottle, and then mixed, in order to achieve the final bee-hive dispersion (which contains 35 g OAD per kg of dispersion, equivalent to 25 mg/ml oxalic acid anhydrous)

Oxalic acid dihydrate (OAD) which has very high initial phase transition enthalpy is a promising phase change material (PCM). In this paper, shape-stabilized composite PCMs composed of OAD and bentonite were prepared by a facile blending method to overcome the problem of leakage. FT-IR results indicated the interactions between OAD and bentonite, such as the capillary force and the hydrogen bonding, resulting in the confined crystallization process. As a result, the OAD was confined to be amorphous.
 

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Thank you for confirming what I said earlier, namely that "all acronyms needs to be identified in context at the beginning of the conversation as to what it identifies."
Confusion exists only when one makes assumptions, like your statement that " OAD is short hand for oxalic acid "dehydrate" not "dribble".
So, OAD is short hand for....., but not always?
Clarity matters.
 

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Anyone seen any information in the beekeeping comunity where any other oxalic acid other than oxalic acid dihydrate is used? It would be safe to say that when any treatment with oxalic acid is mentioned, the chemical mentioned would be oxalic acid dihydrate. Therefore the term dihydrate should not even come into the equation. If one was to look at the price of anhydrous oxalic acid you would realize why that is so. So MSL your little tiff about terminology is just to muddy the waters.
 

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The registered compound is Oxalic Acid Dihydrate. The use of anhydrous oxalic acid in your hives is not permitted by law in the United States.
Using Oxalic Monohydrate would mess with the recommended dosage (which is pretty well mess up anyway) since its water of hydration has been driven off. More potent per gram than Oxalic dihydrate but the resulting sublimed OA dust would be identical. Richard Cryberg made a dissertation on it recently on Bee-L. The issue of confusing doses would render it off label usage so technically illegal.
 
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