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gregv…. No this is a hobby for me. The sport is I pay for things and the process makes me happy. I’m happy to pay for something that works. My 9-5 job funds my happiness of hobby. I don’t need to nickel and dime or your free.99 process. Good luck with it though.😏
Whatever works to have fun.
Heck, people spend tens of thousands of dollars on their hobby - that's fine and it is their money.

But the beekeeping does not require any of that.
It can be as cheap as you are willing it to be - and that is my point.

Besides, it'd be ridiculous if I spend my kids' college funds for this silly thing.
So I won't.
 

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LOL LOL LOL-I used old Scoobertdoo in another post earlier today. For those that missed " my first hive of my 1000" do a site search and find it!!! Get a beverage and a snack and read it!!! Like a slow-moving train wreck, you just can't take your eye off it! First class entertainment and lots of laugh!!! But I regress-all of us are dreamers some of the time.

As far as OAV vs OAD-OAV wins every time. I did dribble once and it was un-fun, messy and I don't think you get the coverage of Vap during times of movement. I bought a Varrox and then a ProVap as my apiary expanded. I did 10 hives in a row in half an hour and moved on to the next yard. The costs of an 800-watt inverter (Harbor Feight $50 with 2-year warrantee), half face respirator (Home Depot-$25), gloves (harbor Freight $12 box of 50) While my climate is somewhat mild and I (hopefully) have a good IPM Plan once I get that one warm (50ish F) after Thanksgiving-I'm done with treatment for the season. I feel if you've done your job over the full season, with some added emphasis in September-October on testing and mite control, a few random hits in November and the "one" for the road on that warm December day, its over. Not sure I'm going to open hives in January or February here in NJ unless I see an issue.
Ya'll are selling Scooby short, I believe it was First Hives of 10,000. :)

Alex
 

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Whatever works to have fun.
Heck, people spend tens of thousands of dollars on their hobby - that's fine and it is their money.

But the beekeeping does not require any of that.
It can be as cheap as you are willing it to be - and that is my point.

Besides, it'd be ridiculous if I spend my kids' college funds for this silly thing.
So I won't.
Your opinion is obviously very important - to you - less so to many others. Enjoy life, you will only go round once
 

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Whatever works to have fun.
Heck, people spend tens of thousands of dollars on their hobby - that's fine and it is their money.

But the beekeeping does not require any of that.
It can be as cheap as you are willing it to be - and that is my point.

Besides, it'd be ridiculous if I spend my kids' college funds for this silly thing.
So I won't.
GregV….where did college funds come into the discussion? Don‘t you worry your little whatever. This is a fun hobby for me so try…I know it’s hard, but don’t be so obnoxious. Your point could be made without the condescending verbiage. Yes, you want to do it for as cheap as possible. I read that loud and clear. But cheap does not mean better nor ideal for other people. Remember I’m east coast, a whole different world to you. Lastly this is my hobby/fun and I will pay more for something that works waaaaaaay better. Let the snarks fly
 

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Right now,one hive consisting of two 10 frame deeps of an Ohio swarm of muttsutts.
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Hobbys are expensive, any hobby is and there comes a time when there is a big loss. For instance, a couple of years ago, I got back into scuba diving after being out of it for over 40 years. I ended up paying almost $ 5000 for all my gear both for warm water diving and cold-water diving. After just two years of diving, I had back surgery and cannot dive any longer. Try to sell used diving equipment. I am also a very poor salesman.
This is my first year as a beekeeper. I sure pray that I don't have the same losing experience. I have a lot of money tied up in it already.
 

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I know it’s hard, but don’t be so obnoxious.
But cheap does not mean better nor ideal for other people.
I am simply pointing out that 1)one may not afford things and 2)OAD is a good option on a small scale.
My very first post was - both OAV and OAD are fine choices and have ups and downs.

But I am being obnoxious for being poor and cheap and not spending the money on OAV.
 

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If you want to do your OAV for free , read up about it in Equipment and hardware, take a look at band heater vaporizer. You might also look at the first post date and find it is before the Pro Vap came along, That thread was set for beekeepers to make their own vaporizers. All the other bandheater vaporizers came about from beekeepers who decided to rather buy than make their own. I have used OAV alone for more than 8 years and could not have done so with OAD.
 

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Greg I have heard the expression that one of the advantages of getting old is that you can get away with behavior that would get you spanked if you were a child! :LOL:

I have spent many days but not a lot of money making OAV wands and band heaters. Money is not really a concern but I enjoy the creative outlet. I spent at least 4 days making an uncapping plane that I could have bought as a chinese knockoff for a hundred bucks. Some people would consider that a terrific waste of time. If something else were being neglected in the meanwhile it would be. Yesterday I went out and did an OAV on ten colonies. I did it through the bottom entrance. Dribble would be out of the question.

Being able to make do with the absolute minimum amount of resources used to be much more in demand than it is today. It is good knowledge to have, but not wear as a badge. I was darning socks by kerosene light beside the woodstove when I was 7 years old. Wood was bucked with a bow saw. Snared rabbits was part of the diet. I kind of enjoy some of my frivolous spending now though and have no desire to eat any more rabbit stew!
 

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I find OAV much easier and much quicker. Working by myself, having to tilt up boxes (I use a two box brood nest) and apply the OAD to each seam can be difficult. Especially when you are doing it on 50 to 70 colonies. I figure the refurbished ProVap I bought 3 years ago ($250) has likely administered well over 1000 treatments by now. I am figuring I am into it for less than $0.25 per treatment, and that net cost is going down with every use. At some point, I will likely have to replace my ProVap though.
 

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Sports AKA Hobbies are NOT tax deductable under IRS regulations unless you are bold enough to claim that they are a "business".

And then you better be prepared to eventually show a profit, otherwise the IRS may then disallow deductions that you claimed in earlier years! 😳
 

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Sports AKA Hobbies are NOT tax deductable under IRS regulations unless you are bold enough to claim that they are a "business".

And then you better be prepared to eventually show a profit, otherwise the IRS may then disallow deductions that you claimed in earlier years! 😳
The exact same can be said of a bee hobby that one is bold enough to claim as a "business."
 

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Not treating will doom a hive, low mite levels, however the person gets to that, is all that matters and low mite levels before Oct. rolls around is most important where I live. We have small commercial keepers who do not do OAV but do OAD as a clean up after a Sept. treatment of another method and have good success keeping hives alive thru the winter. They do single deep wintering so for them the dribble allows them to pop the top, quickly dribble and move on.

As for the money factor, no one knows another persons financial position, so to imply that 'cheap' is the driving factor for a beekeeper who does not buy an OAV system and all the protection gear that goes with it is slightly unfair. Sometimes the money is just not there, enough to replace a hive that dies, but not enough to add extra costs so if I can get the hives to not succumb to varroa using the cheaper method of OAD then the OAV unit would not 'pay for itself'.

There are many ways to do this hobby, and finding ways to do it without all the expensive bells and whistles, to do it on whatever budget you have, should be encouraged, not condemned.

There is not a right way and wrong way in all this, it is what fits a keepers time constraints, abilities, health concerns, and financial views.
 

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OAV is hardly expensive? I purchased a band heater for under $200.

OAD is literally dirt cheap - a syringe and a bag of OA - but it's extremely limited in its usefulness. Of all the treatments we use, OAD is probably the most limiting.

It can only be used once, maybe twice in the winter, and it's not effective with brood, and it harms the bees if used too frequently...

Buying bees is a small fortune. They sell nucs for $200, and packages are not too far off that now...and honey sure as heck isn't selling for much.

I haven't bought bees in years....I know people who buy them every year. For them beekeeping costs a fortune.
 

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I have spent many days but not a lot of money making OAV wands and band heaters.
Years ago, I was involved with commercial fishing out of Maine with two $1.2-million-dollar trawlers that would land 30-70,000 lbs. of ground fish (back before the collapse). Recently, I was talking with my bee supplier who has well over 5000 colonies and he was lamenting the bee business. I must have made points with him when I told him my fishing story and said "you get to handle a whole lot of money but not a whole lot stays in your pocket." He looked me in the eyes like I was the first person he knew who fully understood his business. But it's one of those things that you do, because you like it! (And you don't have references to get a real job)

Sports AKA Hobbies are NOT tax deductable under IRS regulations unless you are bold enough to claim that they are a "business".
I actually do claim it but primarily as a loss and to get the set off for my farm land. Of course, I realize it probably cost me a hell of lot more than I'm benefiting. The up side is that I can escape the house, wife and kids and justify my little barn club house.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
 

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I actually do claim it but primarily as a loss and to get the set off for my farm land. Of course, I realize it probably cost me a hell of lot more than I'm benefiting. The up side is that I can escape the house, wife and kids and justify my little barn club house.

Interesting technique...thank you for sharing.

I disagree about it not helping. Hard to make a profit in beekeeping, but you know that getting away from the wife is probably a bigger positive than you realize.

I know people who hate their wives, they'd be envious if they had a good excuse like you do.
 

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OAV is hardly expensive? I purchased a band heater for under $200.

OAD is literally dirt cheap - a syringe and a bag of OA - but it's extremely limited in its usefulness. Of all the treatments we use, OAD is probably the most limiting.

It can only be used once, maybe twice in the winter, and it's not effective with brood, and it harms the bees if used too frequently...

Buying bees is a small fortune. They sell nucs for $200, and packages are not too far off that now...and honey sure as heck isn't selling for much.

I haven't bought bees in years....I know people who buy them every year. For them beekeeping costs a fortune.
The thing is, OAV is also not very effective with brood and needs repetitive treatments within days apart, so the cost in time and money goes up. Yes, OAD is limiting, yet during a broodless period, be it spring, summer or fall, it can be done and does have its uses.

One persons idea that $200 on a band heater is not expensive, is very expensive for another and it is not just he unit it is the protective gear, and the power source . Yes buying bees is expensive but the assumption that the only way to save a hive from varroa is to do OAV and without it you will be doomed to pay for a new nuc every spring is not applicable in all cases.
 

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Huh that's odd because My total cost for mite treatments is literally a $20-$30 a year.

I spend more on tar paper winter wraps and garbage bags than mite treatments.

Where do you get the impression that OAV isn't effective with brood?

There was a study by Cameron Jack where he also got mites down using OAV only during the brood season. Once every 7 days, if I recall correctly.
 
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