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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Purely from curiosity, but given the ease and least cost of applying oxalic acid by dribble, why is it that vapour applications seem to be preferred, considerably more costly and for the applicator with a greater personal risk. As I said, just curious.
 

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Pretty clear that OAV scales better - but at the cost and complication of the equipment investment (including the safety).

On the other hand, the lost cost and simplicity and safety of OAD equipment makes it an obvious choice for me personally (and the scale is not a factor for me being a hobbyist).

So what is there to discuss again?
The choices are very clear.
Sounds like you are looking for some confirmation of your own choices?
I am sure whatever you went for is a great choice.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pretty clear that OAV scales better - but at the cost and complication of the equipment investment (including the safety).

On the other hand, the lost cost and simplicity and safety of OAD equipment makes it an obvious choice for me personally (and the scale is not a factor for me being a hobbyist).

So what is there to discuss again?
The choices are very clear.
Sounds like you are looking for some confirmation of your own choices?
I am sure whatever you went for is a great choice.
:)
I agree, it just seems as though vapour is preferred over liquid, I cant understand why.
 

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I think it truly depends upon a beekeepers personal views and habits. I am a small keeper so for me time is a non issue, the money for not only the vaporizer but the power source and protection gear is too expensive for my small set up and the health risk to me from the vapour is the biggest driver for my choice of OAD over OAV.

Each to his own.
 

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I agree, it just seems as though vapour is preferred over liquid, I cant understand why.
Well, for the big boys OAV makes sense.

The little people... well, a lot of them copy the big boys because the big boys "know better". :)
But the little people should think for themselves and not just blindly copy cat.
It is an old topic.

And if you (a little back-yarder) still went for OAV - then let us hope you made your choices intelligently and for a good reason and did your homework prior. All it is to it.
 

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I agree, it just seems as though vapour is preferred over liquid, I cant understand why.
There used to be considerable chatter that multiple dribble treatments would compromise the malphigian tubes (kidneys) of bees, so perhaps not the best for the winter bees. Not a problem with the OAV. since it is not ingested. There is some experimenting with glycerine rather than sugar to make the liquid to give the sticky effect and solubility but bees do not ingest glycerine. Dont know what the present concensus is though.
 

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Besides, I hanged up enough material by now of the efficacy of LAD (Lactic Acid Dribble).
That is a double no-brainer for a small-scale hobbyist IMO.

I have done it this season - the bees are alive and happy.
Don't know about the mites yet - but I am taking one for the team.
Will report as usually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've used as the last application of the season before wrap up, people say it's hard on queens in particular, I've not found that to be true in my case, cant speak for everyone of course.
 

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Oxalic vapor is preferred because one does not need to uncover hives, pop lids, or light a smoker.
However, ONE carefully timed "winter clean-up" using the dribble method gives the beekeeper one last glance at clusters.
When large operators are vaping hundreds of hives daily; how many dead hives are getting vapor?
o_O
 

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Not a problem with the OAV. since it is not ingested. There is some experimenting with glycerine rather than sugar to make the liquid to give the sticky effect and solubility but bees do not ingest glycerine.
I'd like to know what happens with the OAV once applied to a hive. Do the bees totally remove it? It is a concern to me.
 

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OAD is worse because you have to open the top of the hive in the middle of the winter. IDK about you but my hives are pretty well wrapped up and it's a pain in the arse to pop open the lid, find the cluster, and then drip on them.

I've done both methods.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OAD is worse because you have to open the top of the hive in the middle of the winter. IDK about you but my hives are pretty well wrapped up and it's a pain in the arse to pop open the lid, find the cluster, and then drip on them.

I've done both methods.
I've always done it the first week of November,the following week I wrap them up and done.
 

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If you try and do it in middle of winter where I live, the cluster would be so tight I don't know if you would get very good results with OAV. Not to mention that,with the snow cover, dragging the OAV paraphernalia around at that time would be a huge effort. The winter time for us is just a waiting period in which we hope everything we have done prior to Nov. has given them a fighting chance to make it.
 

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I’m a small scale bee keeper with 14 hives. I disagree with Greg above, as this is a hobby to me. With that said, I’m more than willing to spend the money on something that I feel does a better job. If you are small scale what’s the big deal with price? Hell you’ve spent a bunch on bees, hive equipment etc. A next year nuc/ package will easily cover the cost of vapor unit. Before you chime in $$$, I’m east coast/cost of living is different. Loss of two hives includes a respirator with 4 years worth of cartridges approved for said chemical. By using OAV if I can keep a hive through winter, the unit has paid for itself…done! Every year thereafter is “free.99“. If you have sites far away, get creative with batteries and YouTube. Having done the oav, max drop is 24 hours later and by golly it does a great job! I’ve had hives I thought were strong but after an OAV treatment….walking death going into winter. The vapor treatment hands down is far superior to dribble. Ok let the flogging begin…but if Your gonna hit don’t be cheap! I dismissed that earlier.🍻
 

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I seem to recall reading that dribble is hard on queens, and OAV doesn't have this downside. I don't know this from experience.
 
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It appears to me that many new beekeepers seem to get their advice from posts such as " my first hive of my 1000" you need to look him up to see how he is getting along. These forums have a lot of information in them and it is best to try and see if the information comes from a source that has kept many bees for a long period of time and learn to sift the wheat from the chaff otherwise you end up being an aspiring beekeeper for a short ammount of time before moving on to something else. The information you need is all in here all you need to do is find it.
 

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It appears to me that many new beekeepers seem to get their advice from posts such as " my first hive of my 1000" you need to look him up to see how he is getting along. These forums have a lot of information in them and it is best to try and see if the information comes from a source that has kept many bees for a long period of time and learn to sift the wheat from the chaff otherwise you end up being an aspiring beekeeper for a short ammount of time before moving on to something else. The information you need is all in here all you need to do is find it.
LOL LOL LOL-I used old Scoobertdoo in another post earlier today. For those that missed " my first hive of my 1000" do a site search and find it!!! Get a beverage and a snack and read it!!! Like a slow-moving train wreck, you just can't take your eye off it! First class entertainment and lots of laugh!!! But I regress-all of us are dreamers some of the time.

As far as OAV vs OAD-OAV wins every time. I did dribble once and it was un-fun, messy and I don't think you get the coverage of Vap during times of movement. I bought a Varrox and then a ProVap as my apiary expanded. I did 10 hives in a row in half an hour and moved on to the next yard. The costs of an 800-watt inverter (Harbor Feight $50 with 2-year warrantee), half face respirator (Home Depot-$25), gloves (harbor Freight $12 box of 50) While my climate is somewhat mild and I (hopefully) have a good IPM Plan once I get that one warm (50ish F) after Thanksgiving-I'm done with treatment for the season. I feel if you've done your job over the full season, with some added emphasis in September-October on testing and mite control, a few random hits in November and the "one" for the road on that warm December day, its over. Not sure I'm going to open hives in January or February here in NJ unless I see an issue.
 

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If you are small scale what’s the big deal with price? Hell you’ve spent a bunch on bees, hive equipment etc.
Some of us here doing it for ~free.
That is the whole point of the "sport" of dirt cheap beekeeping.

Especially it is pointless to spend thousands of bucks if you are a small scale and basically operating at a loss. :)
So, yes, the price IS a big deal.
Feel bad for people around me who spend lots of bucks (because they are told so), then after 2-3 years just drop off at a steep loss.

But the bee stuff sellers love them and, indeed, tell the same standard line - "Hell you’ve spent a bunch on bees, hive equipment"...
What is the big deal if you buy yet another gizmo from us??
Heard that line before.
 

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gregv…. No this is a hobby for me. The sport is I pay for things and the process makes me happy. I’m happy to pay for something that works. My 9-5 job funds my happiness of hobby. I don’t need to nickel and dime or your free.99 process. Good luck with it though.😏
 
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