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Useing all mediums,both hives started first wk of may.Went into hives today,found 3rd medium drawn out 90%. Pulled out one frame capped honey and put in 4th medium that i added. Replaced frame in 3rd medium with a new foundation frame.I did not put in an excluder, Is this acceptible? As always thank you for your input, Ken
 

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I think you did it just right, why use an excluder if they are already keeping the honey up and brood down? Sounds like you're in a flow and bringing in the liquid gold!
 

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Yes Ken, clover makes a good flow. As long as the flow is good, they'll keep the brood under the honey. If the flows stop, they'll start moving up as needed until flows start up again, usually.
 

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I was wondering the same thing as Ken! But what happens if the queen does decide to go up and start laying in a honey super? (I have two deeps and a honey super on one of my two hives right now.) Should you start excluding her if she's up there laying eggs? :) What do you do about egg/larvae etc. in a honey super, once they've been laid?

Until today I didn't realize that NOT using an excluder was an option, so now I'm intrigued!

When I put that first honey super on, it was suggested to me that I wait two weeks, THEN put on the queen excluder (after making sure the queen wasn't up top.) Today is supposed to be excluder-adding day (haven't checked what's going on in the super yet.) Now I'm wondering if I should bother!

Thanks... Natalie
 

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Natalie, its an endless debate with, as far as I can tell, no clear victors. Some advocate for excluders, wanting to avoid the mess of finding brood during the extraction process. :eek:
Others call it a honey excluder, saying that it impeded honey production. I don't recall if there are any scientific studies on the issue.
Adrian.
 

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I thought this was a really neat article.

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/jerry-hayes/queen-excluder-or-honey-excluder/

Doesn't "prove" anything of course, just food for thought.

Just my 2c. I'm just a hobbyist, and if the queen lays in a honey super, I'll be able to take the time to spot it and just leave those frames in the hive, and that doesn't bother me in the least. I'll just take the frames of honey that I can, and be generous with leaving them enough for winter. I'd rather have bees next spring than honey now. That said, I think I may try the "excluder under the upper entrance" idea next year....cause hey, honey is delicious. :)
 

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I don't use an excluder especially when I am having new comb drawn out. The only time I generally use one is if I find a honey super with brood in it, and I want the brood to hatch out before harvesting. Then I'll certainly make sure the queen stays down & out of the super.
 

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I produce honey for a living and would not be without an excluder.
I really dislike having to get the bees out of a honeysuper because they will not leave due to to brood.
i have found that if the bees are strong, and healthy, and the brood chamber is as it should be, the bees will not exclude honey. They will infact keep the excluder clean, move up with some incentive (like a frame of brood) and keep piling it into the honey chambers....key though is a strong active hive.
 

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honeyshack,

I couldn't agree more with all you said, especially baiting the super with brood rather than honey. If the hive is too weak they will rather build burr comb between the brood and super and stuff it with honey, what a mess. Strength is the key for sure. John
 

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There is an old saying that without an excluder the queen will lay everywhere except in the brood nest. With a strong colony, a good nectar flow, and a baited super you should have no trouble with the bees not working the supers because of an excluder.
 

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Natalie,
FYI:
I have my bees drawing out foundation in 100% medium depth supers which are 6 & 5/8" deep.
No excluders are used until the frames are fully drawn out and then they go on for making divides this summer and fall.
The excluder is a valuable tool and you have to learn when to put it to use.
Good luck.
Ernie
 
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