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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted earlier about a large super hot hive I'm going to requeen. I know there's a good chance as Evil as they are she will be killed but I got a spair nuke with what appears to be a nice queen. Got a question. Was searching form and saw where someone placed a queen excluder and newspaper between the new box which has the nuke frames with queen and the main hive where I just killed the witch. He didnt get an answer. See any problem with that. The original hive is a monster and don't really relish the idea of going threw the whole thing in a few days to see if they killed her as mean as they are. This way I can just look in the top box. If shes still kicking just pull the excluder and go. If not do it the hard way and try and pinch all the queen cells till they are out of queen materials then introduce a frame of larvae and eggs from my sweet Koehnan hive. Sound like a plan?
 

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Can't advise if the excluder plus newspaper would be 100% successful with such a hive, although it sounds more likely to be safe than most other methods.

There is one potential issue though. The colony under the newspaper, having been dequeened, will almost certainly start raising queen cells. These will be continued until finished even after the newspaper has been chewed out. Sorry, but you are just going to have to go through that hive and seek out and destroy queen cells.

But here's a tip about dealing with super aggressive hives that scare you. If you want to go through the brood nest to check for queen cells, get a spare lid and bottom board and set them at least 30 or so yards from the angry hive. Carry the brood boxes and set them on that bottom board. Give it a few minutes then go through the brood nest looking for the queen cells. Many of the bees will have returned to the original location meaning less bees to deal with, and it is also the older more aggressive bees that leave.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Excellent advice. At least I wouldnt be directly in the horde for very long. Last time in I took seriously over 100 stings in my Vail rim alone. Wear a hat under it. I'm a fast learner!lol Think they will make cells if I do the combine just an hour after going queen less?
 

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Well the problem there is if you combine them so fast that in theory they won't build queen cells, it's also so fast there is high risk to the good queen.

I'm thinking that if the hive is that vicious, there's another way. If it's 2 brood boxes, put an excluder between them and leave for 10 days. Then you can take a look and the box with eggs and young larvae has the queen, remove just that box to maybe 10 yards away and set up as a hive. Do the combine using the other box it will be impossible for them to raise a queen. A day or so later there will be fewer bees in the queenright box, go through it, find the queen, and kill. Then at day 7 and day 10 go through it and kill any queen cells. They can be hard to spot so shake the bees off each comb to make sure you didn't miss any. After that the box can be added back under the other hive.


Rather complex though i know.

A few weeks back I came across a hive that had reverted back to super aggressive AMM's we used to have here years ago but are virtually extinct now. So aggro smoke did nothing it was just a constant sting fest the entire time it was open. Didn't have a queen on me but needed those bees gone. So i found and killed the queen, and removed every stitch of brood from the hive and distributed to other hives. Took a frame of eggs from a nice docile hive and put it in the aggro hive.


The hive will either requeen and become docile, or, not requeen and die, either option is fine with me.
 

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Last time in I took seriously over 100 stings in my Vail rim alone.
I think if I had one that did that, I would simply burn it and start from scratch with the nuc.
Regarding Oldtimer’s suggestion….with an especially difficult hive….6 or so days after pinching the queen, I have been known to take all of the brood boxes across the yard, leaving an empty hive in the original location and then shake all of the bees off of the brood frames away from the original location. That way I can give each frame a thorough inspection and remove any emergency queen cells. If I don’t shake the bees off I am likely to miss at least one cell. They’re not always obvious….especially when covered with bees. After cutting out any cells, I place each frame in the box at the original location.
Later that day or the next I will introduce the new queen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Old timer I certainly understand what you're saying. Last time I went threw it there were certainly 2 brood boxes. This is only my 3ed year so I haven't made 1st base yet. Basic contention is that placing this good queen in with a standard newspaper combine I might as well go ahead and pinch her head off to. Got to think more on this.
 

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OT is braver than I am.
If i'm really scared that bottom and top is not coming off until after the move, I might even close it up first.
 

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There are hives that are more skittish than mean. Approach normally from the front and they go off. Approach slowly from the side and they stay calm. Crack the inner cover, wait for them to flare and calm down while standing still. Remove the cover slowly tipping it to the side so the light hits slowly. Drift smoke over the hive rather than full frontal assault. Sometimes works, one of the advantages of not having to work a hundred hives that day.
 

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I have found that if you split a mean hive into 3 or 4 nucs really helps. I just lined up 4 nucs beside the hive and quickly divided the brood and stores between them, I didn't worry about doing it perfectly or where the Queen was, just get in and out. I waited until the next day to do anything else. Doing so makes it much easier to find the evil Queen as 4 weak nucs are easier to deal with or to re-Queen than a large overly defensive colony.
What you do with the splits depends on your needs at the time.

Good luck,
Alex
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well the bee gods were shining down on me this weekend. I found and killed the evil queen Friday about 3pm, took a single sheet of news paper and layed it across the top of the hive, layed a queen excluder over it, cut about four 3 inch slits then stuck a new box on top of that with an empty fram each end followed by a frame of pulled comb then stuck the 4 frames from the nuke with a queen in the center. Stuck the feeder and roof on and got out of there. Went back to check Sunday about 4pm and they had chewed every last piece of paper up and a nice marked queen running around happy. Took the queen box off and set it to the side then went threw the other boxes rearranging them and adding some empty frames in place of a few capped honey frames so they dont swarm as I dont intend to look at them till all these nasty bees are dead. Still dont know how they did it but ended up with about 15 bees over the course inside my veil that I took a sting from. You can see the stingers in my suit and this evening still had about 10 on my smoker trying to sting it. I smoke my wrist and bottom of my bee top trying to keep them from targeting these areas so I think they learn that smoke smell is a target. Funny thing is this hive has probably 2x the honey that my other two have of about the same size. Its packed. Someone asked a while back about "killer bee honey". Taste like honey!lol
 

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Nice work!

There is still some risk, but with the good queen still being OK, odds are hopefully in your favor. :)
 
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