[wild-b]

So last week I ordered a new queen and stuck it in the hive Friday late afternoon. On Sunday late afternoon I checked and it looked like the hive was accepting here because they weren't all balled up and and chewing on the cage, but the candy wasn't all eaten away yet so I chipped a little more out and poked a small hole through it with a long pine needle.

Today I went out and checked because we had a big storm yesterday, the foundations had larva in a couple of frames and the Bees were hauling a lot of pollen in. The cage was down further about half way down the frame and the hole was around an eighth of an inch big and still had bees in it, but I couldn't tell if one was the queen or just some strays going in and out so I stuck it back in the frames and closed it up.


-How big of a hole does the queen need to get out and if so did she lay those larva or are they from workers? They seem to be pretty uniform but I couldn't tell if they had multiple larva in the cells or not, but I didn't think I would see Larva already from her since it's only been since Monday if she did get out Sunday night.

 

[Thershey]

Curious, what happened to the previous queen? Are you certain you didn't have a queen?

 

[wild-b]

The Previous didn't make it that we could tell. She was really lethargic looking when I released her and she was released almost 3 weeks previously and there was no activity going on in any of the frames so I put in a new queen.

 

[Colobee]

On Sunday late afternoon I checked and it looked like the hive was accepting here because they weren't all balled up and and chewing on the cage, but the candy wasn't all eaten away yet so I chipped a little more out and poked a small hole through it with a long pine needle.

Today I went out and checked because we had a big storm yesterday, the foundations had larva in a couple of frames and the Bees were hauling a lot of pollen in. The cage was down further about half way down the frame and the hole was around an eighth of an inch big and still had bees in it, but I couldn't tell if one was the queen or just some strays going in and out so I stuck it back in the frames and closed it up.


-How big of a hole does the queen need to get out and if so did she lay those larva or are they from workers? They seem to be pretty uniform but I couldn't tell if they had multiple larva in the cells or not, but I didn't think I would see Larva already from her since it's only been since Monday if she did get out Sunday night.

Here in "high and dry", the candy can get a bit hard, so poking a started hole usually translates to a three day release. No hole usually nets ~5 days. The hole needs to be nearly the size of the cork for the queen to get out. If they've opened the hole big enough for new bees to get in, it's almost big enough for your queen to get out.

You are correct, any larvae you are already seeing don't fit into the "3 days an egg rule" for your new queen. When you say "the cage was halfway down - Was the cage screen side to the comb? What breed - italians? I hesitate to suggest another intrusion, but 5 days should be plenty of time to wait - it may be time to 1) go see if she is out, or 2) still alive, or 3) remove the open end cork and allow her free access.

If #1, good.
If # 2 - bummer, time to re-group.
If #3, pull the other cork and cover both holes with your thumb & finger, and lay it back down, screen side down with the hole over a gap between the frames. That way she'll almost always crawl down, rather than fly away ( its rare, but...) If you lay the cage in the position and set it so you can watch it for a bit through the inner cover hole, you can observe hows she's accepted and further minimize seeing your first "fly away". 99.999% of the time, she'll slip quickly and quietly down amongst the bees. 'Nothing wrong with putting the top cover on immediately, either, if you're the "extremely nervous" type.

 

[wild-b]

1. So if she's still in the cage where did the larva come from and do I release her?

The new queen is a carnolian the old queen was an italian, ut there was nothing last Friday when I put the new queen in. So it had been 18 days and the other queens that I had released on the same day already had 3-4 frames of sealed brood.

 

[Blessed Farms]

If she's still in the cage AND you are seeing larva in the frames DO NOT release her! Unless you want to loose a queen.

 

[wild-b]

That's just it ! there's a hole in the candy, but it didn't look big enough for a queen to get through. I couldn't tell if she was in there or a number of stray bees. It's not a typical cage that the queen came in. It was a white plastic cage with slots in all 4sides and a tube that was filled with candy. It had a marked queen and 4 attendants. I don't think she was in the cage, but I didn't see how there could be larva already even if she got out Sunday night when I made a hole in the candy and pulled out a bunch of loose stuff. She most likely got out Sunday night, but there shouldn't be larva already.

 

[biggraham610]

I dont think there is any way the larvae is a result of her. I have heard of a queen taking a couple weeks to get cranked up laying on a new package, they dont all react the same. Was it a new package? If so, you may have had a queen that just got going. For what its worth, im new at this. 2nd year. G

 

[Colobee]

If you saw larvae, they were either from a laying worker or another queen. If there was another queen, you mail order was likely assassinated in the cage, which is why I mentioned #2. Keep you fingers crossed. It will probably work out one way or the other, or some other.

You ARE correct, within three (full) days of her release, all you should be seeing is eggs. Some would be within hours of hatching, but not yet! (today, Thursday, - teeny, tiny larvae)

Whoever came up with the term bee-math should have their head examined - including the word "math" in anything seems to make it harder to understand. Bring back the term brood cycle k: it's only one more sylylable.

 

[wild-b]

So leave them alone and check back in a week ?????

 

[Colobee]

I think the one hive/queen deserves another peek. It will be four days since intro. If she's alive, good, if she's not out, she should be soon. If she's gone, share anything new.

 

[wild-b]

OK so I just got back and took these pics of the hive, not sure a new queen could do all this since Sunday night at the earliest. I looked and didn't find a queen as of yet marked or unmarked. I'm going to load these 4 to a post so tell me what you see or think. 1-4

 

[wild-b]

in the 1st pic there is no real pattern
in the 2nd there are 2 bees with white spots on them and I was curious what that is.
in the 3rd and 4th looks like just capped brood.

 

[wild-b]

1st one just more capped brood
2nd 3rd 4th Not sure whats going on here
5th larva and capped brood

 

[Thershey]

in the 1st pic there is no real pattern
in the 2nd there are 2 bees with white spots on them and I was curious what that is.
in the 3rd and 4th looks like just capped brood.
View attachment 11434 View attachment 11435 View attachment 11436 View attachment 11437

It's a bit fuzzy but...Fourth pic, inch over (left) from your fore finger, abdomen on the bar headed downhill looks like a queen?

 

[Blessed Farms]

I think the larva you have is from a laying worker since you said there was no queen prior to introducing the caged one. The brood I see looks like drone brood.

 

[wild-b]

if that's a queen it's the original Italian, because the carniolan was marked

 

[Thershey]

if that's a queen it's the original Italian, because the carniolan was marked

Which fits because we know that the basic bee math doesn't work for there to be capped brood or larvae as of yesterday given the fact that she (the new carni) was in the cage Sunday. You said she (the original) looked dehydrated or lathargic 18 days ago when you received them, maybe she regained her strength and started laying again after a week or 10 days? Pattern isn't great yet but it looks like some of the larvae patches are getting tighter. Hard to say what will happen for sure but I won't be surprised if they ball and kill the new girl upon release. Sure hope not but that's what I've experienced on a few occasions. Keep us posted, good learning opportunity for many of us.

 

[wild-b]

She wasn't in the cage this afternoon, but I couldn't find her either. They seemed to be leaving her alone on Sunday in the cage. There were only a few and they brushed off pretty easy accept for the one that stung me on the end of the finger. ouch

 

[biggraham610]

Im with blessed farms, although I must admit on second glance, Thershey's top bar bee does have a queenlike abdomen. It seems to be all drone brood to me and spotty, which I have been told, points to a laying worker. I had one last year and it was very similar. Ive heard that once a laying worker takes hold, Its tough to introduce a new queen, I did successfully by following the advice of a breeder who sold me the queen. leave cork in, for 3-5 days, then let em at the candy, even then he said its a crapshoot. Worked for me. Even if that is a queen, It looks like she needs replacement. Good Luck. Keep us posted. G