Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my first year with bees and it has been challenging. My new colony swarmed on Memorial Day and for whatever reason the hive did not re-queen. I just installed a new queen, but even if she is accepted and gets to work right away my workers will age out before the new brood is active. I tried to get a frame of brood from a friend but his hive is also weak. Are there any positive outcomes to this situation? What about the new queen?
 

·
Registered
Survivor stock & Buckfast in Langstroth 8F’s
Joined
·
322 Posts
I just installed a new queen, but even if she is accepted and gets to work right away my workers will age out before the new brood is active.
There are a few Texas beekeeper’s around here, so when did you introduce this queen would be one question, and what do your numbers look like in the hive? Temporal caste ontogeny or the bee doing certain jobs in a hive based upon age is something that has wide variability depending on the hive. Colony condition plays a huge factor in this. Are you worried about running out of foragers, nurse bees, or all of your dead out.
 

·
Premium Member
Honey Hive Farms: We deliver bee packages, queens & bulk honey in 8 states
Joined
·
317 Posts
Its all about the timing and space.
You would have to know when the last brood hatched?
Look at the numbers of workers and decide how many frames to give them.
If it were me, I cant see it but if there were a small amount of bees with a mated queen, I would put them in a nuc with a the best drawn out frames I could find so that the queen can lay.
Then I would feed them sugar water 1 to 1 (watch that they do not become sugar water bound)(If they are not taking the sugar water they dont need it)
Then I would also put water in the hive like the sugar water. (in a jar with a lid with small holes in it)
I would make it as easy for them not to travel far to survive.
Also may visit pollen in the hive to help...
Wish you well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Raising brood is what reduces the life span of bees. Any bees that have not raised brood will be able to live for months just like during winter. If the population is still large enough and you do not have laying workers, it should be fine.
 

·
Registered
Survivor stock & Buckfast in Langstroth 8F’s
Joined
·
322 Posts
I am unsure as to where you recieved this information, but it is not correct.
Raising brood is what reduces the life span of bees. Any bees that have not raised brood will be able to live for months just like during winter. If the population is still large enough and you do not have laying workers, it should be fine.
Pre- Forage flights and foraging is what reduces the life span of bees, not raising brood.
 

·
Registered
Survivor stock & Buckfast in Langstroth 8F’s
Joined
·
322 Posts
Its all about the timing and space.
You would have to know when the last brood hatched?
Look at the numbers of workers and decide how many frames to give them.
If it were me, I cant see it but if there were a small amount of bees with a mated queen, I would put them in a nuc with a the best drawn out frames I could find so that the queen can lay.
Then I would feed them sugar water 1 to 1 (watch that they do not become sugar water bound)(If they are not taking the sugar water they dont need it)
Then I would also put water in the hive like the sugar water. (in a jar with a lid with small holes in it)
I would make it as easy for them not to travel far to survive.
Also may visit pollen in the hive to help...
Wish you well.
Moving the bees into smaller box has merit in your situation. Less to patrol or defend, increases number of bees per frame, which allows the queen to lay more brood, she will not lay what the colony cannot cover. 2&5 frame Nuc’s work in these situations especially here in TX. You have time to get them built up, as stated above feed syrup, and pollen patties as you may go through stages without foragers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Great advice. I'm down to 1000 bees in a 8 frame deep. I'm doing the 1:1 sugar water and patties will be here tomorrow. They also do have a decent supply of honey. the next 30 days will be critical for sure. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
I am unsure as to where you recieved this information, but it is not correct.

Pre- Forage flights and foraging is what reduces the life span of bees, not raising brood.
You are incorrect. Raising brood uses up their fat bodies which results in reduced life span. Workers transition to field bees when their fat bodies are atrophied from raising brood. Even if bees with used up fat bodies are shut in the hive during the winter and cannot forage, they will still have a reduced lifespan and die before spring.
 

·
Registered
Survivor stock & Buckfast in Langstroth 8F’s
Joined
·
322 Posts
You are incorrect. Raising brood uses up their fat bodies which results in reduced life span. Workers transition to field bees when their fat bodies are atrophied from raising brood. Even if bees with used up fat bodies are shut in the hive during the winter and cannot forage, they will still have a reduced lifespan and die before spring.
Not going to argue on this with you. There are multiple studies pick your University. We are talking life span not winter bees. A&M, Iowa, Auburn, Michigan? Winter brood raise bees as well, not at the number as say Spring but none the less, and foraging is removed for the most part. Bees feed nectar, pollen, and bee bread saying this burns their fat stores more than foraging is like saying you burn fat by digestion at higher rate than working or running. Sorry but I believe in this case you and I will have to agree to disagree, respectfully.
Cody
 

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
3,079 Posts
Not going to argue on this with you. There are multiple studies pick your University. We are talking life span not winter bees. A&M, Iowa, Auburn, Michigan? Winter brood raise bees as well, not at the number as say Spring but none the less, and foraging is removed for the most part. Bees feed nectar, pollen, and bee bread saying this burns their fat stores more than foraging is like saying you burn fat by digestion at higher rate than working or running. Sorry but I believe in this case you and I will have to agree to disagree, respectfully.
Cody
read part 1 and part 2 , it may help to better understand.

It is if the Vitellogenin gets used up.

And the life span of winter bees is due to the Vitellogenin reserves, however in a " brood break" the same principles can apply.

GG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
read part 1 and part 2 , it may help to better understand.

It is if the Vitellogenin gets used up.

And the life span of winter bees is due to the Vitellogenin reserves, however in a " brood break" the same principles can apply.

GG
Vitellogenin is what is stored in the fat bodies. When their fat bodies are depleted it is because the vitellgenin has been used up which happens when they raise brood. As long as that is not used up, they live a long time as Randy Oliver stated in the article you quoted: "As long as bees are loaded with vitellogenin, they can live for a long time—years as a queen, or for as much as ten months as “winter bees” in the far north! "
 

·
Registered
Survivor stock & Buckfast in Langstroth 8F’s
Joined
·
322 Posts
read part 1 and part 2 , it may help to better understand.

It is if the Vitellogenin gets used up.

And the life span of winter bees is due to the Vitellogenin reserves, however in a " brood break" the same principles can apply.

GG
Alright I am seeing we’re you coming from, great read, but a totally different angle than the way I was reading..I apologize ffrtsaxk.
Cody
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
read part 1 and part 2 , it may help to better understand.

It is if the Vitellogenin gets used up.

And the life span of winter bees is due to the Vitellogenin reserves, however in a " brood break" the same principles can apply.

GG
Thank you for the info. I feel better about my colony pulling through. I also may have a lead on 1 frame of brood which will also help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
New queen was released 2 days ago. Today I found her and eggs(y) I also installed a frame of brood that an awesome beekeeper brought from 60 miles away. He also left about 100 bees that flew out of the cab of his truck when he opened his door. I think my colony has a good chance to recover🤞
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top