[tim adams]

Sounds really bad...
Tim Adams
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...BEES?SITE=VABRM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

[Bud Dingler]

The pesticide laden hives referred to in a new report are mostly beekeeper applied chemicals discussed in another post

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239034

 

[peterloringborst]

Fluvalinate, Coumaphos, yes. Also Chlorpyrifos

The term “organophosphate” (OP) is often used in the scientific and lay press to describe a large chemical class of insecticides and chemical warfare agents. OP insecticides, which include malathion and chlorpyrifos, among others, are among the most widely used agrochemicals for the control of insect pests in the world. Approximately 427 tons of OP insecticides were used for vector control in 2003–2005, and > 36.5 million tons were used in agri culture in the United States in 2000.

Chlorpyrifos is an organophosphate insecticide, which may be applied at different times during the growing season to control various types of pests. Indeed, this appears to be reflected in the air concentrations for both 2006 and 2007, where both peaks and valleys are present in the air concentration trends. In 2006, there are significant peaks in air concentrations both in late April-early May and again in August. In 2007, there is a more gradual increase in the spring and a slightly earlier summer peak. Overall, the air concentrations in 2007 are somewhat lower than those in 2006.

Both sampling systems show a curious increase in air concentrations during late October-early November, well after the traditional growing period. Temperatures did not rise drastically during this time, discounting a temperature-based increase, which would also have been apparent in some of the other pesticides’ air concentrations during this period. It is not clear what caused this late concentration peak for chlorpyrifos.

 

[soupcan]

Untill there is a very complete & extensive study done on the dead bees that never make it back to the hive thses studys are incomplete at best!
Put 10 or 12 pallets on a nice very large white cement slab in the spring in farm country.
Check it every day if you like or at least 2 times a week.
I think you will be very surprised as to your findings.

 

[peterloringborst]

I am afraid you haven't been following the story closely. The problem is: the bees fly away miles and don't come back. Where will you find them and how will you know where they came from (which hives)?

Any number of things could cause this. 1) Disorientation by neurological damage caused by pesticides. 2) Same, only by viruses in the bees' brain. 3) Deliberate abandonment by bees to rid hive of pathogens or contaminants.

People seem to want to find flaws in the work to support their pet conspiracy theory. It's easy to criticize somebody else, and rush in to fill in the blanks with wild conjecture. One guy told me it was God's will the bees are gone.

 

[sqkcrk]

One guy told me it was God's will the bees are gone.

Well, who can argue w/ that? I just can't imagine Aaron M. saying that out loud.

Let's say that you could find bee carcasses that originated from dwindling hives. What do you suppose we could tell by examining them? Wouldn't they be too dryed out to disect? I guess one could gather a sample and do a chemical analysis to see if there are any chemicals present that could cause the bees to die away from the hive. I just don't know and don't know if it is at all practical.

 

[Omie]

Perhaps some of the investigators could look in the fields of sunflowers, corn, etc, for dead bees on the ground between the rows, and test them?
It's 'possible' that the foraging bees are not simply becoming 'disoriented' from pesticides, but perhaps they are just dying while out foraging.
Has anyone seen the youtube video of the bees drinking the morning water/dew exuded from the leaves by young corn seedlings grown from pesticide-treated seed? In that small video experiment, the bee drinking that 'dew' water exuded by the leaves died within a couple of minutes i believe, and the bee drinking the water exuded by untreated corn seedling leaves had no problem. These are possibilities that also might account for foraging bees never returning to the hive. Not just pollen and nectar sources or accumulated wax contamination should be examined.

 

[Hambone]

Honeybees is the 4th most searched item on yahoo today.

 

[soupcan]

I have followed the CCD deal since it started.
I have pictures of several 100 doubles of ours that evaporated 3 or 4 winters ago.
Full of honey and no bees to be found.
Sorry no conspiracy pet peve here at all.
Most of my relation farm & as do most of our friends, both row crop & vegetables.
Bottom line is they are a worried as we are as to the bee losses!
I have entered this entire deal from the get go with an very open mind.
I have talked to dozens of beeks over the years that have lost large numbers of bees.
One researcher I spoke with told me very frankly " the only thing we can prove at this point in time is that the bees & humans are breathing the same air in this world! "
Sorry no criticism here at all, please reread my 1st post.
Look up the word autopsy in Webster's.
Like I said put 50 or 60 doubles on large cement slab from the begining of spring untill after frost & tell me what you see!
Posting a large amount of dead bees will be a great start.

 

[waynesgarden]

Like I said put 50 or 60 doubles on large cement slab from the begining of spring untill after frost & tell me what you see!
Posting a large amount of dead bees will be a great start.

Are you saying the bees that have disappeared from CCD hives are simply on the ground right outside the hives? Hard to believe that researchers and beekeepers have all failed to look down all this time.

Wayne

 

[soupcan]

Has anyone done any large scale " posting of the dead bees from CCD sites that are have been collected say 50 to 100 yards from the hives?
Or even further distances away than the above mentioned?

 

[Tom G. Laury]

I know exactly what Soupcan is referring to. Most outyards are grassy or windy or not visited any more often than necessary. But if you put some bees down in a yard with a smooth clean floor for say 150 feet around, protected from high wind and in a place where you can observe them conveniently at certain times of year bees will be crawling and walking all over. Then those die and get blown away or eaten by birds, and more take their place. This goes on for weeks while the colony populations drop. And there are many more disabled bees further away from the apiary.

odfrank has posted some really good videos of this happening.

 

[soupcan]

You are very very correct Tom!
I have in the past cleaned the slab with air & returned a day later & then the following day also to see the results.
The bees you will find that have there wings worn off due to there age & the high humidty of Nebraska summers at times I consider normal.
Many of the others I find on or near this concrete slab, there condition can not be ignored.
The bee looks to be normal looking in all aspects from the outside.
Even when this bee is placed under a low power microscope no external damage can be found.
I have spoken to a number of queen breeders on this subject.
Many agree that there needs to be a better look taken at the dead bee population that can be found some distance from the hive.
As I said I have not been made aware of this type of study being done if it has.
Again "Autospy " is a word to look at!

 

[Kieck]

Sounds to me like you're halfway to doing the research, soupcan. All you need to do is gather some of those bees you're finding, and send them in for analysis.

 

[Naturegoods]

I just finished up watching the you-tube videos of "the last of the honeybees"
Enlightening - somewhat depressing - I recommend it.
Got dial up? Do what I did, go to a place with highspeed and save each of the seven , 10 minute parts to a flash drive to watch later. You can make copy of you-tube videos through savevid.com . :thumbsup:

 

[jmgi]

All this talk about studying the dead field bees from CCD colonies, you think this hasn't been done already? CCD has been around for more than a few years now, I can understand folks getting impatient for an answer, but let's not suggest that studies of these bees has not taken place yet! This is a complex problem to be sure, there are so many individual potential causes, not to mention combinations of things that end up being lethal.

 

[soupcan]

All I ask is to show me this study if it has been done!!!

 

[Omie]

Hopefully the finding and analysis of dead field bees (not those lying in front of the hive, discarded) has been done, but...all I ever actually read about is how they analyzed the bees in the hive and the wax, pollen, and honey in the hive.

 

[peterloringborst]

Studies of pesticide kills have used dead bee traps for decades. This is SOP. The problem is, dead bees generally do not show high levels of pesticides. Much higher levels are found in the pollen and wax. The dead bees is the first place anyone looks. More in depth studies move on to the hive contents. Also, if the bees are flying some distance from the hive and dying, there is no way to collect them. Following is an example of the regular set up for detecting honey bee mortality due to pesticides:

We conducted a long-term investigation to ascertain effects on honey bee, Apis mellifera L., colonies during and after exposure to flowering canola, Brassica napus variety Hyola 420, grown from clothianidin-treated seed. Colonies were placed in the middle of 1-ha clothianidin seed-treated or control canola fields for 3 wk during bloom, and thereafter they were moved to a fall apiary.

Adult Mortality. Colony adult mortality was assessed using a Gary dead bee trap (DBT) (Gary 1960) or a 1- by 2-m white sheet placed on the ground extending out from the hive entrance (Faucon et al. 2005). One randomly selected colony at each field was fitted with a DBT, whereas the entrance sheet method was used for the remaining three (eight DBT and 24 entrance sheets total for the experiment). Dead workers and drones were collected from DBT or entrance sheets and counted approximately every 7 d from Day 0 to Day 130.

Overall, we found no differences between colonies from clothianidin-treated and control fields. Colonies in clothianidin-treated fields gained as much weight and yielded as much honey as those in control fields.

G. CHRISTOPHER CUTLER AND CYNTHIA D. SCOTT-DUPREE. 2007. Exposure to Clothianidin Seed-Treated Canola Has No Long-Term Impact on Honey Bees

 

[BEES4U]

Are those crawler bees that have been mentioned in the above threads infested with trachael mites and or Nosema?
Ernie