Missing queens
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It this the website?
https://www.lloydstbees.com/
I may know the guy (and he, who I know, is a good guy, IMO).
I have bought from him.
But really, what is the proper course of action if one to send 5 queens and then the receiver never receives them through the no-fault of the sender (especially if the "sent" receipts are available)?
Should there be some insurance involved?
Who eats the risk?
Also, 5 queens for $200 means $40/queen.
Well, he retails for $35 (what I paid).
Also, see this - https://www.lloydstbees.com/prices
What kind of queens did you buy if to pay $200 for 5?
Kinda pricey; he does not normally charge that.
https://www.lloydstbees.com/
I may know the guy (and he, who I know, is a good guy, IMO).
I have bought from him.
But really, what is the proper course of action if one to send 5 queens and then the receiver never receives them through the no-fault of the sender (especially if the "sent" receipts are available)?
Should there be some insurance involved?
Who eats the risk?
Also, 5 queens for $200 means $40/queen.
Well, he retails for $35 (what I paid).
Also, see this - https://www.lloydstbees.com/prices
What kind of queens did you buy if to pay $200 for 5?
Kinda pricey; he does not normally charge that.
I wouldn't blame the queen breeder for a failure to deliver by the post office. I've been getting monthly remittances by mail from an american client for more than 20 years. They are mailed on the 2nd typically and usually arrive between the 10th and 13 of the month. Since the powers that be started gutting the US Post office that's changed. The last one sent left an office in the eastern us postmarked July 02, arrived here on Aug 05.
I could go on and on about this, but that would devolve into politics. I will say, fella trying to make some bucks producing queens is now hamstrung by politics of the post office, you are pointing the finger at the wrong place.
+1
the breeder put them in the "mail" at his end alive and with proper intent. I have seen the Postal folks leave queens in the mail box on Very hot days.
Even when it says live bees all over the package. Shipping is hit and miss now for sure. Try to find queens close enough to drive over and pick them up.
If that is not an option try UPS or FED Ex
last couple I did were Hold for pick up at the USPS, they call at 8-9 am time frame when they come off the truck, i drive there , they are in hives by Noon.
do watch the tracking every hour or so online to get a better idea of when you need to engage.
GG
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2,406 Posts
Different countries, different systems - but over here the onus is upon the seller to demonstrate delivery was effected - i.e. that the correct signature was obtained by the Post Office. Otherwise the seller must refund the purchaser and then make a claim against the Post Office, as it was the seller who entered into a contract with the Post Office to deliver the goods - even if the purchaser paid for that delivery. If the Post Office can't prove they fulfilled the contract, then they lose out - not the seller, nor the purchaser.
LJ
LJ
I believe this is how the law works here too but may vary by state. The law may be one thing but the norm in the practice may be another. J
Guess that would depend on what level of service was paid for wouldn't it ? I can ship a letter off for a buck, no confirmation of delivery or timelines. I can spend 10 bucks, then it will have tracking information. I can spend 25, then it'll have tracking and guarantees on deliver tomorrow. I can add insurance on top of that by paying a portion of the declared value. But shipping queens would be an exception, our post office will not insure live critters.
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For sure the Post Office has different levels of service - which involve different scales of payment and different levels of compensation.
But what I was hoping to convey is that proof of posting is not the same as proof of delivery, and that at each stage of the transaction a contract is entered into. Imo, it's essential to focus on who enters into a contract with whom - for that determines who is responsible for what.
I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but I find it somewhat odd that the seller has refunded postal charges (and by doing so is accepting that delivery has not taken place) and yet refuses to refund for the goods which were not supplied as a result of the non-delivery. I assume that the contract entered into was to supply (i.e. to deliver into the purchaser's control) five live queens which were fit for purpose, and not just to post five queens in the hope that they would eventually turn up. The form of that particular contract is key.
This is much easier to grasp in cases where much larger deliveries are involved - say, with a bulk cargo delivered by ship. The contract may specify that the goods are to be delivered onto a particular quayside - which can be challenging in some third world countries where cargo handling facilities can be primitive. But arriving at the port is not fulfilling the contract - the goods must be placed (undamaged) onto the quayside itself. Only then has the contract been fulfilled, with control (and responsibility) then passing from the carrier to the customer.
It's exactly the same with Ebay - even if the seller has proof of posting, if delivery has not been effected, then the purchaser is refunded at the expense of the seller.
On a personal level, of course I have sympathy for the seller here, as this screw-up is not of his making, and no doubt he did the best he could to ensure things went smoothly. But I have even more sympathy for the purchaser, who - quite rightly in my opinion - feels 'screwed-over'. I would too, in his place.
At the moment we have a 'lose-lose' situation: the purchaser is out of pocket (and out of queens), and the reputation of the seller has taken a hit.
But the 'guilty party' here is the Post Office, and it is they who should be bearing the financial loss - not the purchaser.
LJ
But what I was hoping to convey is that proof of posting is not the same as proof of delivery, and that at each stage of the transaction a contract is entered into. Imo, it's essential to focus on who enters into a contract with whom - for that determines who is responsible for what.
I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but I find it somewhat odd that the seller has refunded postal charges (and by doing so is accepting that delivery has not taken place) and yet refuses to refund for the goods which were not supplied as a result of the non-delivery. I assume that the contract entered into was to supply (i.e. to deliver into the purchaser's control) five live queens which were fit for purpose, and not just to post five queens in the hope that they would eventually turn up. The form of that particular contract is key.
This is much easier to grasp in cases where much larger deliveries are involved - say, with a bulk cargo delivered by ship. The contract may specify that the goods are to be delivered onto a particular quayside - which can be challenging in some third world countries where cargo handling facilities can be primitive. But arriving at the port is not fulfilling the contract - the goods must be placed (undamaged) onto the quayside itself. Only then has the contract been fulfilled, with control (and responsibility) then passing from the carrier to the customer.
It's exactly the same with Ebay - even if the seller has proof of posting, if delivery has not been effected, then the purchaser is refunded at the expense of the seller.
On a personal level, of course I have sympathy for the seller here, as this screw-up is not of his making, and no doubt he did the best he could to ensure things went smoothly. But I have even more sympathy for the purchaser, who - quite rightly in my opinion - feels 'screwed-over'. I would too, in his place.
At the moment we have a 'lose-lose' situation: the purchaser is out of pocket (and out of queens), and the reputation of the seller has taken a hit.
But the 'guilty party' here is the Post Office, and it is they who should be bearing the financial loss - not the purchaser.
LJ
It’s strange because I ordered queens delivered by post office and no problem a last weeks again from different breeder and had no problems.I have also have queen’s order from again other breeder that showed up dead and breeder had no problems sending more.I only had to pay for postage again.This guy told me that I am out of luck and will no return calls.I am hoping nobody else gets screwed.Again Buyer beware of getting queens from him.Llyods bees in Wisconsin.
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No tracking number? Most breeders purchase insurance through the shipping company, which you then can file a claim through.
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