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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
With the controversy surrounding the Harvard School of Public Health study, I checked to see if any other work had been done regarding HFCS contamination.

Sure enough, it had:

http://www.ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2

I'm surprised that the 'expert reviewers' didn't mention this study. It supports Dr. Lu's claim for HFCS contamination. While Manufacturer A may be filtering out contaminants, Manufacturers B and C obviously aren't. Since mercury is showing up as a contaminant in HFCS, it isn't too far fetched to say that other contaminants, like pesticides, aren't being filtered out either. Filtering technology that filters out heavy metals, like mercury, generally filter out pesticides as well.

This page gives a clear description of how mercury in HFCS can harm humans. You need to extrapolate a bit to understand how it can harm bees.

http://www.sailhome.org/Concerns/BodyBurden/Sources3/CornSyrup.html

Perhaps we're looking all looking for the wrong contaminant?

I also found a statement in this study,

http://pedrotierra.com/system/files/files/Tennekes 2011 2161-0525-S4-001.pdf,

interesting since it helps to explain the effects of low doses of neonics and metals:

"The median times to 50% mortality (t50) decreased with increasing
concentrations of metals, as seen with carcinogens and neonicotinoids,..."

The following Polish study helps to establish a baseline Hg level in pollen. The levels near the military base begin the approach the higher levels found in HFCS, but don't surpass them.

http://6csnfn.pjoes.com/pdf/18.2/265-272.pdf

I also found a paper reporting that GSTs in Honeybees actively detoxify Hg.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22248933
 

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It gets scary when you start digging around and find what is actually found in our food supply. And then top it off with no concerns from the bureaucrats whose job it is to protect us.
 

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Dr Lu's control hives were also fed hfcs. If lead in the hfcs were a factor, it would have affected the controls equally. The ammounts found were generally small, and even the anti hfcs lobby doesn't use this argument anymore. ..old news.

Deknow
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Dean:

I'm more concerned about Hg in anything that I eat, than I am about which brand of HFCS was used in the current study (mercury or lead free).

Don't ignore Lu's all important hypothesis that a contaminant (imidacloprid in his study) in HFCS around the time of the first occurrences of CCD was responsible. It appears that HFCS did, at least, have high mercury levels. I don't know about pesticide levels in HFCS from that time, but it seems alot more plausible now.

The 2009 study found levels of mercury that were so high in some of the samples, that a child eating an average diet containing HFCS would be exposed to 9X the EPA limit for mercury.

What would it do to the Honeybee?

The GST reference suggests that GST detoxifies mercury.

A new hypothesis might be: Mercury potentiates Nosema/imidacloprid fatalities in Honeybees by inhibiting GST.

The Lu hypothesis does seem alot more plausible to me today, than it did yesterday. However, Lu was no help at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Stopford was paid by the CRA to do the study, and they didn't use the same samples collected by the FDA investigators.

Read the Dufault response in the link, and it'll explain everything.

The study still stands.
 

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What would it do to the Honeybee?
Forget the honeybee when you have a child stricken with cancer you smarten up real quick.

Likewise it is not the adult bee you should be concerned with. It is the developing brood that you should be concerned with. You, me, we, assume that if it makes it to adulthood it is healthy. That is a fools assumption.
 

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Don't ignore Lu's all important hypothesis that a contaminant (imidacloprid in his study) in HFCS around the time of the first occurrences of CCD was responsible.
Bayer has already explained that only 1/2 of 1% of the corn crop was ever treated with imidacloprid. And that imidacloprid residues have never been detected in HFCS. If I was Bayer, I'd be considering a lawsuit against Lu and Harvard for negligence and slander.
 

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I'm not sure the 1/2 of 1% is accurate. Virtually all corn seed is treated with Cruiser and Poncho, as well as most soybeans, canola, sorghum, cotton, wheat and other seeds. http://www.agriview.com/news/crop/se...9bb2963f4.html
Barry, that very same article said Cruiser = thiamethoxam and Poncho = clothianidin. So neither Cruiser nor Poncho = imidacloprid.

Bayer says: http://tinyurl.com/7e6pafd

"over the past 8 years, the annual percentage of total corn acres in the U.S. treated with imidacloprid has been less than half a percent."
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
BlueDiamond:

The mercury that made it's way into HFCS in the above study reportedly came from contaminated caustic soda and hydrochloric acid. I haven't seen any data on pesticide levels in HFCS from any time.

I would assume that they've changed suppliers and are filtering out any contaminants nowadays. But, we don't have any current, publicly available data.

That's the issue.

That being said, Lu didn't have any data from past HFCS samples to speak of.

It was a research hypothesis based on no exisitng evidence for imidacloprid in HFCS.

It was just a hypothesis, but any anti-neonic study is sure to be a big hit in Europe where it will be published.

Conversely, I think the Dufault study was well done, and hard hitting. It was done here with FDA field investigators and U.S. scientists. The chain of evidence was superb. But, I never heard about it till recently.

Funny how that works.
 

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It was a research hypothesis based on no exisitng evidence for imidacloprid in HFCS.
It was just a hypothesis.
But before formulating such a hypothesis, can there be a legitimate excuse for an associate level university professor to fail to check:

1) whether or not the majority of corn grown in the United States has been treated with imidacloprid?
2) whether or not the majority of HFCS purchased by beekeepers contains detectable amounts of imidacloprid?

Corn syrup manufacturers such as ADM and Cargill might have grounds to sue Dr. Lu and Harvard for negligence and product slander.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There's no legitimate excuse for the kind of science that Lu is doing.

It's more show business than science.

Get headlines, get funding., rinse, repeat.

Dr. Lu didn't invent this model that has been used over and over again in Honeybee research since the time of CCD. They didn't find the cause/cure either. Better experiments; same results.

"More studies are needed..."

I'm not sure on what grounds Bayer, Monsanto, Cargill, ADM, the CRA, etc. would sue.

It's completely hypothetical.

However, we're all starting to wonder why there's no information on HFCS testing.

The law doesn't require it.
 

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However, we're all starting to wonder why there's no information on HFCS testing.
The law doesn't require it.
For decades the big food manufacturers like Cargill, ADM, etc. have done their own in house pesticide residue testing on their finished product (or they sub it out). They know their products (e.g. HFCS) will test out clean if anyone checks them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
What about HMF or alpha dicarbonyl compounds?

It's not just the pesticides and heavy metals that someone feeding HFCS to their bees would be interested in, it's by products as well.

I've only posted the most 'offensive' study on contaminants in HFCS.

I've also found studies showing the above by products.

What perplexs me is that some beekeepers feed this stuff to their bees by the ton, but they don't have some very basic product information at their disposal.

I can't explain it.
 

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Transfer from the plant into the corn seed and hence into the HFCS isn't the only way the syrup could be contaminated.

You'd be amazed at the things people can do, like manage to screw a right hand thread hose onto a left hand, wrong sized nipple well enough to put a tanker load of sanitizer into the milk tank at the infant formula factory.

Biggest problem with HFCS as bee feed is that there isn't much research on what it does or what might be in it that doesn't harm people but wipes out bees. We don't eat anywhere near as much as bees do on a body weight basis.

I'd not bet that any particular tank car load of syrup was fully tested, either -- may or may not be, depends on the size of the batch they make, and what was in that tank car before and who cleaned it out.

Peter
 

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Transfer from the plant into the corn seed and hence into the HFCS isn't the only way the syrup could be contaminated.

You'd be amazed at the things people can do, like manage to screw a right hand thread hose onto a left hand, wrong sized nipple well enough to put a tanker load of sanitizer into the milk tank at the infant formula factory.

Biggest problem with HFCS as bee feed is that there isn't much research on what it does or what might be in it that doesn't harm people but wipes out bees. We don't eat anywhere near as much as bees do on a body weight basis.

I'd not bet that any particular tank car load of syrup was fully tested, either -- may or may not be, depends on the size of the batch they make, and what was in that tank car before and who cleaned it out.

Peter
......as if some organic product couldnt be mishandled as well. I find it utterly amazing how these arguments can evolve based on nothing more than pure speculation. HFCS is testing clean folks, why can't we work off of that fact instead of substituting "theory Du jour". I also think it is noteworthy that HFCS has been a staple feed in the bee industry for over 30 years now, it's not like something experimental just now coming into use.
 
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