[Jackam]

After installing a package and the queen is released a few days later by the bees, if she was a virgin queen, how long before she makes a mating flight? I assume that SOME of the package bees must be drones but maybe not, and maybe not enough!
It doesn't make sense to me that she'd lay unfertilized eggs and wait for drones to emerge until she flies, but then a lot of this doesn't make sense to me just yet!

 

[Robbin]

After installing a package and the queen is released a few days later by the bees, if she was a virgin queen, how long before she makes a mating flight? I assume that SOME of the package bees must be drones but maybe not, and maybe not enough!
It doesn't make sense to me that she'd lay unfertilized eggs and wait for drones to emerge until she flies, but then a lot of this doesn't make sense to me just yet!

She won't mate with drones from her own hive. She will fly further than they will to insure there is no inbreeding. This time of year I don't think there is much chance that she won't find plenty of drones.

 

[Graperunner]

Jackam

Queens are sent after they are mated, I could be wrong.
I live about a 50 miles north of you and have not seen a drone.
Spring is about a month late

Paul

 

[Robbin]

Jackam

Queens are sent after they are mated, I could be wrong.
I live about a 50 miles north of you and have not seen a drone.
Spring is about a month late

Paul

Man, you guys live to far NORTH... Paul is right, store bought queens are mated unless they are sold as virgins and there would be no doubt if you had bought one of those.

 

[Michael Bush]

>if she was a virgin queen

She should not be, but I think I've gotten some that were.

> how long before she makes a mating flight?

Most likely a couple of days. Could be as long as two weeks.

> I assume that SOME of the package bees must be drones but maybe not, and maybe not enough!

Irrelevant. She's not likely to mate with them no matter how many there were. What is relevant is if the local colonies have been making drones.

> It doesn't make sense to me that she'd lay unfertilized eggs and wait for drones to emerge until she flies

She cannot and will not lay eggs until after she mates. Even drone laying queens are mated, just mated late or ran out of sperm. I've never seen a queen with crumpled wings who can't fly, lay an egg.

> but then a lot of this doesn't make sense to me just yet!

I see that...

 

[Jackam]

> but then a lot of this doesn't make sense to me just yet!

I see that...

OUCH! A shot right through the heart.

 

[Kidbeeyoz]

OUCH! A shot right through the heart.

I think you deserved that. I have a friend with 600 hives who will not sell bees to anyone unless they have made an effort to join a bee club or have read books so they have basic knowledge about beekeeping.

 

[Jackam]

I think you deserved that. I have a friend with 600 hives who will not sell bees to anyone unless they have made an effort to join a bee club or have read books so they have basic knowledge about beekeeping.

Don't be a jerk.
This forum is beekeeping 101. The place for beginners.
This was an educational and fun exchange until you decided to be God.
I'm sorry I asked a "stupid" question and would not meet with your friend's approval.
Things get lost through the internet and typed word. Perhaps I will go back to lurking and reading - which is what prompted me to ask the question to begin with. Other posts have spoken of the potential of getting virgin queens within a package. Even MB thinks he may have gotten some.

I was at my local bee club's Bee Symposium last night but I guess I should have thought the question up then and there and asked one of the experts that were trying to sell their wares.

Back to the issue at hand:
As far as the comments go about a queen not likely to mate with a drone from her package, I saw last night how they were collecting bees from LOTS of hives and then dumping them all in a huge container. This conglomerate of bees was then dumped into the package boxes until the scale said FULL. The chances are greater that a drone came from a different hive than the queen anyway. Is the time spent in the package with the queen enough time for a queen to say "Nope! You're of my own...." and move on?

 

[ricky_arthur]

Back to the issue at hand:
As far as the comments go about a queen not likely to mate with a drone from her package, I saw last night how they were collecting bees from LOTS of hives and then dumping them all in a huge container. This conglomerate of bees was then dumped into the package boxes until the scale said FULL. The chances are greater that a drone came from a different hive than the queen anyway. Is the time spent in the package with the queen enough time for a queen to say "Nope! You're of my own...." and move on?

A very good question. I'm wondering the same thing. I have a colony from a cut out that I hoped to save. But they ended up queenless. The next best option was to take a frame from another survivor colony of a friend about a mile away. I'm not aware of any other hives in my area. So. If they raise a queen from the borrowed eggs. Will the queen avoid the "unrelated" adopted drones from her current hive? Or will she avoid the drones from a mile away that are her actual parent hive? Will she avoid both and possibly remain un mated? I would love some insight from Michael and others.

 

[marshmasterpat]

Don't be a jerk.
This forum is beekeeping 101. The place for beginners.
This was an educational and fun exchange until you decided to be God.
I'm sorry I asked a "stupid" question and would not meet with your friend's approval.
Things get lost through the internet and typed word. Perhaps I will go back to lurking and reading - which is what prompted me to ask the question to begin with. Other posts have spoken of the potential of getting virgin queens within a package. Even MB thinks he may have gotten some.

I was at my local bee club's Bee Symposium last night but I guess I should have thought the question up then and there and asked one of the experts that were trying to sell their wares.

Back to the issue at hand:
As far as the comments go about a queen not likely to mate with a drone from her package, I saw last night how they were collecting bees from LOTS of hives and then dumping them all in a huge container. This conglomerate of bees was then dumped into the package boxes until the scale said FULL. The chances are greater that a drone came from a different hive than the queen anyway. Is the time spent in the package with the queen enough time for a queen to say "Nope! You're of my own...." and move on?

I think the main way queens avoid mating with drones is they just fly a lot further from the hive before mating whereas it appears that a drone will not fly too far from the hive to an area where other drones tend to congregate. I am not sure anyone really knows why drones pick certain area, but it appears to have something with open spaces and treelines if I remember correctly. Like many animals, I am certain that once in a great while queens cross with drones from their own hive, however rarely.

Keeping asking questions, reading books and posts here can get someone really confused. Lots of good information, but lots of folks with opinions. Like you said, lots of stuff lost in trying to post short questions and short answers, so that makes things more confusing. Hard at times to split the difference between it all. I guess you and I are some of the ones that were confused by too much conflicting information. "WELCOME TO BEESOURCE" Ignore a few and hang in there.

Guess I would not have gotten bees from that person with the 600 hives either.

 

[sqkcrk]

The way I understand things related to queens and drones from the same hive, related to each other or not, when it comes to mating flights, supposedly queens fly farther away from the apiary than drone from the same apiary do. It doesn't matter which hive they come from. How all that has been determined is beyond me.

I think you took Michael Bush's comment too personally. He isn't the kind of guy that puts people down. It isn't in his nature. Can't attest to anyone else on this Thread.

 

[sqkcrk]

> but then a lot of this doesn't make sense to me just yet!

I see that...

Knowing Michael somewhat, his comment was meant as "I understand." You did make the same statement a number of times in your Post, "doesn't make sense". Slough it off.

 

[Michael Bush]

>OUCH! A shot right through the heart.

I certainly did not mean it as a insult. I apologize if it came out that way. But it was obvious you were a bit confused. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

 

[Cameron Daley]

Don't be a jerk.
This forum is beekeeping 101. The place for beginners.
This was an educational and fun exchange until you decided to be God.
I'm sorry I asked a "stupid" question and would not meet with your friend's approval.
Things get lost through the internet and typed word. Perhaps I will go back to lurking and reading - which is what prompted me to ask the question to begin with. Other posts have spoken of the potential of getting virgin queens within a package. Even MB thinks he may have gotten some.

I was at my local bee club's Bee Symposium last night but I guess I should have thought the question up then and there and asked one of the experts that were trying to sell their wares.

Back to the issue at hand:
As far as the comments go about a queen not likely to mate with a drone from her package, I saw last night how they were collecting bees from LOTS of hives and then dumping them all in a huge container. This conglomerate of bees was then dumped into the package boxes until the scale said FULL. The chances are greater that a drone came from a different hive than the queen anyway. Is the time spent in the package with the queen enough time for a queen to say "Nope! You're of my own...." and move on?

I've noticed several people on BeeSource that are oblivious to the way their comments, replies and answers could be misconstrued and come across as rude. I attribute it to a generational gap between "older" and "experienced" beekeepers versus the up-and-comers who are doing their best to learn and ask as many questions as possible.

Personally, if I see a seemingly rude reply, I will read it again... except envision the person smiling while they type the reply with a DVR'd episode of The Price is Right playing in the background of their home. It's hard to be offended that way.

 

[Jackam]

I certainly did not mean it as a insult. I apologize if it came out that way. But it was obvious you were a bit confused. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

Absolutely NO offense taken by your comment! Apologies not needed. My "shot to the heart" post was in jest, the Aussie follow up probably wasn't.
I know that I have a long way to go! As creepy as this sounds, I fell asleep last night in bed while listening to one of your youtube posts. Lots of experience to be had.

 

[Brad Bee]

I remember last year well, with my first bees and all this empty space in my head to fill with bee knowledge. Now it's my second year and I think I know enough now to know that I know less than I knew last year. You know?

 

[seamuswildflower]

as far as queens mating with their brothers i posted thread a couple years ago about a queen mating within the hive no flight, i mistakenly kept a queen screened in and she mated in the hive never flew michael palmer posted that he had a queen with a deformed wing that laid eggs like crazy

 

[Michael Bush]

>i mistakenly kept a queen screened in and she mated in the hive never flew michael palmer posted that he had a queen with a deformed wing that laid eggs like crazy

I won't say it's impossible, but a queen who never flies has never been observed to mate. On the other hand a queen that has never mated and laid fertile eggs has been observed and documented by the Royal Society back as far as the turn of the 20th Century. I tend to figure the explanation that has been observed, however rare, is more likely than the one that has never been documented or observed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelytoky

 

[ricky_arthur]

>i mistakenly kept a queen screened in and she mated in the hive never flew michael palmer posted that he had a queen with a deformed wing that laid eggs like crazy

I won't say it's impossible, but a queen who never flies has never been observed to mate. On the other hand a queen that has never mated and laid fertile eggs has been observed and documented by the Royal Society back as far as the turn of the 20th Century. I tend to figure the explanation that has been observed, however rare, is more likely than the one that has never been documented or observed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelytoky

Somehow I'm not buying the royal society's immaculate conception queen claim. Lol. Do they claim they had a bee isolated and under 24 hour surveillance wearing a chastity belt? Lol

 

[Michael Bush]

It's easy enough to confine a queen and easy enough to confine one with no drones around. There are plenty of studies on thelytoky in honey bees. I'm just referring to the first documented one...

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...n-a-strain-of-us-honey-bees-apis-mellifera-l/
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/thelytoky.html