Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997
From: Andy Nachbar
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Very Agressive!!]

Hello xxxxx and thanks for the Love Letter, I am sorry that you have such a low personal opinion of my posts and I am sure you are not alone. I will try to do better in the future as I surely do not know it all and have room for some improvement in my life.

I will make a few points since I have rung your bell I might as well add to your lists of personal grievances. If you are not interested you are free and welcome to add me to your reader's byte bucket list and should do it now before reading any farther.


1st and most important I have always been up front with what I post and I always try to impress all readers that what I post is "in my own humble opinion" (IMHO), and what I write should not be taken as anything more then the Bee Gospel according to my own experiences from a lifetime within the Beekeeping Industry and in my own beehives and many others. I am sure other's may have done the time but I would not expect them to have the same opinion's or express them in the same style as I do, if at all, that's life..

I do pride myself on being honest and truthful in what I say but admit that I use a style of writing that I hope makes other's think and in no way is intended to do any more then cause all to read what I write. I do not write the politically correct post as anyone can see. It may be seen as aggressive by some, but other's take a certain amount of pride to have been the subject of one of my so called report's and some do make changes because of them and many of these victims are in real life considered my friends. Maybe it is a painful learning process which is the norm when working with bees or the Internet. Everyone who read's what I write is free to e-mail any challenge to what I post and they do and I have at times admitted I was wrong in my opinion's which have not been cast in stone or handed down from above.

Some feeling and ego's do get bruised but that is the nature of this thing we call language and the impersonal nature of the Internet's news groups, list mail, and e-mail,.. most experienced readers and posters do not and should not take what anyone write's as personal. I am sorry for those who do shed a tear because they felt they were personally attacked and can only say to them it's a two way street of experience and if anyone feels they were personally offended they are free here to express their own opinions. A common mistake that we all make and that is reading something into other's post that was not intended by the sender. I do not have time for personal fights or personal attack's in my life's work, but know that my style of writing can be the subject of mis interpretation by those who may read what I write, not all do as many do not like long winded posts or posts that ramble, both are the norm for me, and all are welcome not to read them.

I don't expect many to agree with what I write and yet every week I am asked for permission to use what I have written in one way or another and this gives me the warm fuzzes but also does surprise me and I have without effort, other then what is required to make a post, became one the most quoted beekeepers on the world wide net. I don't know if this is good, but for sure many want to read what I have to say and are not turned off by how I say it and find my effort's worthwhile or they would not be making the efforts to add my words to their own web pages, newsletter's, real newspaper's, books, and other not so friendly places.

Anyway I am in no way offended when other's don't agree with me personally and welcome and encourage all to express their own opinions and I do not judge anyone because he or she has expressed a differing opinion or do I try to belittle those who ask questions as I found out a long time ago the only bad question is the one that was not asked and believe it or not I learn by what other's ask. I have personally set up a "auto responder" for new bee's who want some basic information and it is well used to the point that I seldom mention it as it costs me dearly, but thankfully others have followed my lead and several "auto responders" are now installed on the Internet for beekeeper's use.

I also believe that "if you can do it better then I, then have at it!". I personally plan on continuing with my own efforts as long as I am able as I have a lot to say and have just began to say it.

>I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like you did the right things, if
>anything you erred to the side of caution and IMHO, that is a good

What was that you say, someone may have errored.., IMHO it was one error that so many beekeepers, new and old make, and that is looking to government to solve a common everyday beekeeping problem.

>As for Andy Nachbaur's other comments about "Afro Bee Slash and
>Burn" "quarantine boss with star and gun at the ready"; it appears
>to me that Andy has some problem with the current method of
>quarantine being used in this country to attempt to stop/slow the
>spread of african honeybees

Yes, this includes ALL US bee quarantines which have done nothing to stop, slow down or cure any beekeeping problem and in fact have ruined the lives of so many good beekeepers and their families who were no different from anyone else on this earth other then to have been the victims of the zeal of others. At least one death can be pointed out as a direct result of one of the bee quarantines though not from a gun shot or bee stings but a broken heart and many others have suffered such a degree of damage that no amount of liberal rhetoric can ever make them whole again or will I ever personally forgive those whom I know were responsible or those in positions of responsibility who did nothing but fan the fires knowing all along that it was wrong. The US bee quarantines have been so bad that even the US government agency that was responsible for them now uses them as an example of what not to do in their internal training operations. Even the AHB guarantee is due to expire because the science behind it is so poor that any lower court challenge would end it anyway.(IMHO)

>I recall an earlier post in which he advises someone looking for
>African honeybee stock to breed in the US, that he contact some of
>the guys behind quarantine lines to get AHB breeding stock.

I did that? It is my own opinion that since we have AHB we should take our heads out of our sand boxes., It is time we got to know our bees including the AHB personally and up close and work and use them, not as attack dogs, but use some of their well known productive qualities to make improvement to most any stock now in this country. We don't have to import them via some government program as they are here now in abundance, nor do we have to relied on the judgement of persons with nothing to gain or lose in choosing the right stock for ourselves. Believe it or not many beekeepers in the US are doing what I have suggested above and they do live with fear, and that's not right. Man or beekeepers should have the right to use what God has provided without fear of punishment or destruction from his fellow man the bee cop with the badge and in some areas a gun dressed in his green suit.

Well for a fact if there are so called quarantine lines they have not kept beekeepers from moving in and out of these areas such as bees from Texas and other states known to have AHB, (now including California, an infested state) and these same bees can be found in both the South, East, West and North and have not caused any reported problems and have added to the wealth of this county with honey production and pollination of many agricultural crops, then what good are quarantines other then to provide employment to government people whom could be doing other more productive things like checking meat for bad smells or bugs and chemicals.

>I figured when no one blasted him for that (IMO irresponsible) post,
>that most everyone here on BEE-L had come to appreciate Andy for
>his forwarding of other peoples info, press releases, etc. but had
>learned to ignore much of what he personally had to say

>(I was lucky to have been forewarned).

You may have been the victim of some poor information but you make it sound like there is a "Kill the OLd Drone Club". But as long as you read what I write I believe in time you may with real time beekeeping experience have a somewhat more moderate opinion on ignoring what I and other commercial beekeepers have to say and may even change your open personal attacks on my own opinions and my posts made at great personal investment and without expectations of rewards or even the recovery of out of pocket costs.

I seldom blow my own horn like this but I take great pride in the numbers of people who over the years have taken the time to come up to me personally, sometimes years later, and tell me how that at one time they thought I had one wheel off the track but they have with experience changed their own opinion's and think it is important enough to personally tell me that I was on the right track all the time. This is the only real reward I get for my personal public efforts and does make it worthwhile and calms my own fears and cold chills I get when so many times I have stood up alone before National and State Beekeeping groups, University Boards, the Legislature's, and the Court's, trying in my own way to protect myself and my industry from those who would do us as individuals under by telling it in my own way as I see it and it has worked well and I would be happy to give you details but will not take the time now. I have always included all beekeepers in my efforts and do not judge individuals by the number of bees they have or the reason they have them or even what they post to newsgroups or list mailers but I read them all as time permits and even the personal Love Letters from other readers.

IMHO, ttul, the OLd Drone