[GregB]

LJ, I am all ears!

FWIW - I will shortly be revealing a minimal-management (2 visits a year) fixed-volume horizontal hive - equivalent to five Warre boxes - which contains 24 standing-frames. I believe it to be a totally novel design. Will I attempt to patent it ? Not a chance - wouldn't waste my money.
LJ

This season I experimented with standing frames myself (in mini-hives) as I reported.

For single-tier hives - standing frames are great.
Frames for full-size stand-up frame implementations are readily available (takes a minimal mod to conventional frames).

 

[little_john]

Hi Greg - nice examples ...

Ok - first a bit of chat about how this thing evolved. It started with me considering whether a one-piece Warre was a practical proposition. This was what I came up with:

As you can see, rather than nadiring boxes, all that's required is to move the floor panel downwards ... But - with such a small footprint, having so much weight up top would have meant a high centre of gravity. Visions of the hive falling over in even the most modest of winds.

So - how about rotating that hive down to the ground ? Such a horizontal hive would have the combs running lengthways - something we've already discussed. Only one horizontal hive in the world has that format: the Die Bienenkiste - so how about copying their basic concept, but keeping Warre dimensions, and replacing the Bienenkiste combs with removable frames, and staying with the convention of opening a hive's top, rather than inverting it and removing it's bottom ?

But why ? So that - as with the Bienenkiste - there is no longer a honey-barrier created, which defines the size of the brood nest and which demands beekeeper management in order to rectify this problem.

The other issue I very much wanted to deal with is that of the galleries. I'm going to stick my neck out here and claim that the galleries between combs are of significant importance to the bees, and yet their importance has been pretty-much ignored ever since removable combs were invented. So - what I wanted to create was a system which ensured that the galleries were restored to their former positions exactly after each comb removal. And not just 'near enough', say to the nearest couple of millimetres - but to their exact width and position. This is then what resulted:

It's only a concept diagram, but it's all I have handy right now. As you can see, it comprises of 3 sets of 8 standing frames and a built-in partition-QX.
I had originally planned to mount the frames on s/s rods (1/2" water pipe) but then decided to make the frames with legs instead. These legs sit on anti-friction strips, so that the frames can more easily be closed-up when heavy.

Closing-up the frames is done by three lead screws (not 6 as shown) which protrude through the hive side wall. For now these are common steel - if the hive has potential, then these will be replaced by s/s. The lead screws press against the centre of a pressure plate (not much pressure - but what else to call them ?), with the pressure being transferred to the corners of the plate where it interfaces with the four adjustable spacing screws which each frame is fitted with.

Although I've shown the frame designation as 2x8 brood, 1x8 honey - with your 6-frame commercial guy's method in mind, those frames could always be reversed: 2x8 brood until the flow starts, then relocate 1x8 (with the queen) into the back compartment - which is basically what D.L.Adair's New Idea was, back in the day.

Current Status: Box built, almost finished painting it. Frames built, still need starter-strips added. Pressure Plates and several dummy frames also built and are currently being painted. Still needs Crown Boards (inner covers) making, and a roof.

I'll take a picture of the real thing tomorrow and post it here.

'best
LJ

 

[GregB]

Hi Greg - nice examples ...
......

I'll take a picture of the real thing tomorrow and post it here.

'best
LJ

Thanks for sharing.

 

[little_john]

Ok - a couple of pics as promised:

This is a shot of the box itself - as you can see, the floor needs one more coat of paint - that'll be done shortly:

The anti-friction strips also need splashes of paint removing from them - I'll have to wait until the paint hardens to do that.
Here's a shot taken from the other side, showing the pressure-plate adjustment screws, and with a few frames added:

There are eight frames on the right, which are currently set at 32mm spacing. Some of these will be drawn-out in another box, then re-set at 34-35mm. As can be seen, there's sufficient room left for a 'pressure plate'. These aren't shown as they're currently having metal discs attached to their centres onto which the adjustment screws will press. They're clad both sides, but - this is what they looked like during construction:

I'm still a bit lukewarm about using 'through the wall' adjustment screws, but I couldn't figure out any other practical way of firmly closing-up the comb arrays. If anyone knows of a better solution - do let me know.
LJ

 

[Tigger19687]

LJ, I am all ears!



This season I experimented with standing frames myself (in mini-hives) as I reported.
View attachment 58199
For single-tier hives - standing frames are great.
Frames for full-size stand-up frame implementations are readily available (takes a minimal mod to conventional frames).
View attachment 58197

Greg, what was the outcome of doing these this year?
Did you do a follow up on these and I missed it?
I am curious how the standing frames were...

 

[GregB]

Greg, what was the outcome of doing these this year?
Did you do a follow up on these and I missed it?
I am curious how the standing frames were...

I will, of course, continue the standing frame approach with the mini-nucs.
This makes it trivial to use most any container as a suitable mating nuc hive (be it cardboard or foam or plastic).
Frankly, all the talks of the "mating nucs to buy" are much irrelevant IMO, once you start using free-standing frames - the frames just work; cardboard/foam boxes are in huge supply for free everywhere.

This is the best free standing frame use case by far - standard permanent frames + close enough disposable container for them. The sizing of the free-standing frames is best to be so they fit close enough a variety of shipping containers easily available to you.

Regular sized frames are bit more hassle (because the size/weight to play with become much larger).
So now the equipment needs to be more precise and robust (talking permanent hive bodies).
But the idea still works.
Since all my equipment is following the same standard frame sizing (2x6.25") - free standing Lang frames are always an option in a pinch and I have done this on "as needed" bases (ad-hoc drop-in frames to capture the flow for example).