Two mated queens in one colony is certainly an exception but one authority stated that 20% of all wintering colonies have two queens. Several photos have been posted on theis forum of two queens on the same frame. This probably results from the bees raising a supercedure queen and the new queen and the old just coexist.

 

lakebilly,

I found two queens in one of my hives too. One was limping along like she had been injured and the other was thinner and looked like a virgin. That night we had Dewey Caron speak at our bee meeting and I asked him about it.

Dewey said that two queen hives are very common. The reason they aren't noticed that much is because beekeepers usually spot the first queen and then quit looking so they never see the second one. The queen isn't cutting it so they raise a new queen and wait for her to mate before they kill the old lady.

 

What I am curious to know is whether or not there is something about a mated queen(s) that might avoid a confrontation. The scent/piping sound of an unmated queen aggravating another.

It seems to me that the workers might take exception to a dual situation b/c of a confusing pheromone mixture...?

 

It seems to me that the workers might take exception to a dual situation b/c of a confusing pheromone mixture...?

If that were true how could you ever have drift or drones visiting other hives. I have a feeling that bees are not upset from the smell of another queen I think that only happens when that smell is because of robbers or some other threat to the hive.

 

Ace,

ya think a drone is going to give off the pheromone smell that a queen would? doubt it.

Anybody see two mated queens coexisting peacefully? see them on same frame? bump into eachother?

How many run double queen colonies?

 

Ace,

ya think a drone is going to give off the pheromone smell that a queen would? doubt it.

Isn't the smell of the queen distributed by contact with other members of the hive? Isn't it that smell that differentiates which bee belongs to which hive?

 

I think it was 4 or 5 years ago. I had noticed one hive was superceding their queen. they had a mother and daughter laying side by side in the same colony for the duration of the summer. It was not until the onset of fall that I had noticed the Marked queen (mother) was not to be found.

I think the difference that the bees notice between a mated LAYING queen and a virgin or mated queen who hasn't been laying recently is the difference in behavior. Not so much the pheromones or smell. Have you ever seen a virgin or recently released caged queen on the comb? They cant sit still. A queen who has been laying for some time is a horse of a different color, calm and focused on the task at hand. Mike Palmer brought this behavioral difference in queens to my attention when I was up helping him catch queens. Brother Adams also was a big believer in this theory as well.

 

THALL, interesting, any reading material?

Ace, drifters will be allowed in the hive if they are bringing in groceries. I think the intensity of the queen is probably alot higher. (What do I KNOW, not much)

 

I had a double queen hive persist from last June or July all the way to February when I split them. http://parkerfarms.blogspot.com/2012/02/two-queens-one-hive.html

A few weeks later, I spotted a new virgin in the hive where the old queen was still plugging along. http://parkerfarms.blogspot.com/2012/03/double-queen-hive-returns.html

 

Solomon,


It was your post that started this deep mystery inquiry. Hope you can beat somethin out of the bushes.

 

I've used the second generation queen as a breeder. Maybe it's a trait that can be bred for. New queens hatch on Thursday.

 

Supersedure queens are raised in the colony and the workers view them as their queen even when the old queen still functions as an egg layer. The two queens will both lay eggs and they are usually on the same frame or adjacent frames.

If a strange mated queen is placed in the colony while the colony has it's own laying queen the workers will attack and kill/ball the strange queen before the two queens would have a chance to meet.

 

Often enough that I'm not surprised by it... 1 in five might be high, but then again how often does it happen and we never notice? Judging by the times that I assumed it was queenless when I removed a queen, I think 1 in 10or 1 in 20 is more likely...

 

Anybody see two mated queens coexisting peacefully? see them on same frame? bump into each other?

Yes. I SUSPECT that a mother/daughter situation is the most common, not Sister/Sister.

The "Bull of the Woods" claimed 10 percent of the hives had 2 queens. If you clip, that may increase the odds.

Crazy Roland

 

What is the procedure & purpose for arranging a two queen colony?

 

Some will say produces more honey in a tower arrangement. The tower does allow access to the outside frames for brood management of drones.

 

Lakebilly, Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey By Bro. Adam.

 

Gottit

I know that it happens. My curiosity is WHY? Two virgins=battle to the death. 2 mated queens; A). Workers may kill one.

Questions: Any idea WHY 2 mated queens can co-exist? This is probably short term?

What is the procedure & purpose for arranging a two queen colony?

 

You didn't like my answer?
Procedure:
Just place two boxes side by side each with a queen. Mount a QE to the underside of the first super and span both boxes with queens. Cover half of each box that the supers do not cover. You can make brood chambers double boxes if you like.

 

I don't believe the OP was considering a queen excluder as being part of the "coexisting peacefully" scenario ...

A physical barrier does not suggest "coexisting".

 

When you clip the queens wing, and swarm management get thrown off by the weather, a cell will hatch. The old queen will TRY to leave with the swarm,, can not, and will take her chances hanging around and not getting killed. After a while the new queen does not worry about the old queen.

Crazy Roland

 

What happens to the swarm that didn't get the queen? Come back and take off with one of the virgins?

 

Roland,

Are you familiar w/the procedure, & intended results? (link?)


Ace, I didn't understand your answer. If it was about "Why" more honey of course goes w/ the rule of the golden mean.
Can you say where you got the QEx procedure. That really doesn't make sense. Co-exist would mean together.

 

Can you say where you got the QEx procedure. That really doesn't make sense. Co-exist would mean together.

There were several post here on two queen hives. I thought that is what you were looking for. You can google and get quite a bit on it too if you like.

As far as a mother and daughter queen in the same hive it wouldn't be considered normal so why would you want to have a procedure to encourage it? It has no value as far as I am concerned.

 

How often have you encountered two queens coexisting?

It has been suggested that as many as 10% of hives could have a mother-daughter team both laying. I believe the conversation you're looking for is in the archives. Mother, daughter, queen, same, and hive as key words will return some postings that you may like to read. The archives are full of nuggets ...

 

lakebilly wrote:
Roland,

Are you familiar w/the procedure, & intended results? (link?)

We clip queens, and when the weather goes bad, see ATTEMPTED swarms(Acebird, you try it and find out what happens). What precisely are you looking for?

Crazy Roland

 

My original post was only looking for a plausible reason that queens (mated) could co-exist.

Not anything life altering, just curious.

Not sure why anyone would arrange a dual queen situation.

Ace, probably search them & reread.

 

had two queens in a hive my self, it was very tall, many supers on the hive and there was a queen in the top region and one in the bottom area.