[Arpolis]

Oh boy!

I learned a lot today. I went to add a new screened inner cover on today and found all sorts of problems.

First off I purchased a 10 frame deep kit from a manufacture to start my bees because with essembling it and taking careful measurements I can make sure and duplicate it when building my own boxes.

I have already made 2 new deep boxes and I thought I measured correctly but each box has been 1/4 inch too long. The widths are fine on each box. Also I found on the top edge on one edge of a board or another they were 1/8th - 3/16 of an inch too tall.

Since I made the two boxes both the same size being too long I went ahead and made the inner cover the same length. And go figure it is exactly correct. But since the box a made is a little off the inner cover is not flush with the box. Now I never realized this but on my telescoping cover it barley fits over the inner cover. So the holes for adding ventilation are now doing no good at all!

Then frustrated with that I never figured exactly what my mistakes were on the boxes so I took my tape measure out and started looking closely. On one box two measurements were off by 1/8" each. On the other I had two off at 1/16" and another at 1/8". So I made 5 different tiny mistakes making two boxes exactly 1/4" off each in the same direction and the one time I get measurements correct that piece does not fit in the existing cover.

Hmmmm frustrating!

So I think I am going to make a new inner cover for now the proper 20" length rather than 20 1/4" because I still have all the material for that. Then next paycheck I am going to re-do two more boxes and swap frames over. I just have to remember that not even 1/16" of a mistake is acceptable because it all adds up of you make more than 1 mistake lol.

Ok my frustrated rant is over. Thanks for reading.

 

[kramerbryan]

I take it your not a carpenter. Rule of thumb: measure twice, cut once. These were just boxes imagine how much a person can screw up on a house. Good luck, it gets easier with practice.

 

[marshmasterpat]

Arpolis - I feel your pain. That measure twice and cut once is not worth a flip if you cut on different sides of the line each time like I do. Or if the tip of your tap is slightly loose and also adds another 1/16 or so error each time you measure something.

So I use a metal ruler instead of a tape measure. LOL - it helps

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

Accurate plans for lang style 10 frame hive components can be seen here:
http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/10-frame-langstroth-barry-birkey/



> new inner cover for now the proper 20" length rather than 20 1/4"

Hmmm. The proper dimension for hive boxes is 19 7/8", not 20". See the linked plans.

 

[pndwind]

Long is better than short because it's easier to fix.

 

[Arpolis]

Lol ok so along the lines of what marsh said. I am measuring 20" cause my tape measure's tap is 1/8" off. So you are correct 19 7/8 is the proper measurement.

 

[pndwind]

Ignore post

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

I build all my own stuff and can tell you from experience to toss your tape and get a METAL yardstick and a METAL square. Always use the same equipment and measure in exactly the same way. Personally, I made myself a sheet with all the exact measurements listed for every piece of equipment I build. Building bee equipment is VERY exacting and not for those of us who tend to be casual about stuff. Being anal-retentive actually helps when it comes to building boxes.



JMO

Rusty

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

I build all my own woodenware, and I make jigs and sliding tables that control key measurements. I even have simple jigs that fit my miter saw to help make sure that those 19 7/8" boards are what they are supposed to be. If you plan ahead, some jigs can be used for two different sized cuts by making a suitable removable shim/stop block. I make sure to paint those stop blocks white so I don't get them mixed up with scrap wood.

 

[VanIslander]

I build all my own woodenware, and I make jigs and sliding tables that control key measurements. I even have simple jigs that fit my miter saw to help make sure that those 19 7/8" boards are what they are supposed to be.

Couldn't agree more...! While it can be a PIA building the jigs, once you do, every piece is the same and they're considerably faster to cut.

Funny thing; I found a tablesaw sled-jig in a corner of the workshop about a month ago. It's really cool, with a clamp to hold down the work, adjustment edges that can change the angle at which the work meets the blade. The only problem; I can't remember what I made it for, or what I made with it. This getting old sucks... :scratch:inch:

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

Writing a few quick notes on the jig with a Sharpie helps me with that problem! :lookout:

 

[kramerbryan]

I'd like to see some pics of your jigs and maybe a brief explanation on how they work.

 

[Daniel Y]

Arpolis - I feel your pain. That measure twice and cut once is not worth a flip if you cut on different sides of the line each time like I do. Or if the tip of your tap is slightly loose and also adds another 1/16 or so error each time you measure something.

So I use a metal ruler instead of a tape measure. LOL - it helps

Actually that loose tip is supposed to be that way. That way you get an accurate measurement from either surface of it when hooked on the end of a board or pushed up against something. Don't let it get bent. Very accurate measurements should be made with a ruler. Also if you want very exact cuts mark the line you want to cut with a knife. If you want to make the same cut repeatedly and accurately use a jig. always know which side of the line to cut on.

 

[Arpolis]

Thanks for all the words of wisdom and help. I may have to look into a jig setup eventually down the road. I am making this a 3 year project and after expanding from 1 to 4 hives in that time, of I still like it I want to ramp up big and a jig will really be needed then.

 

[Needo]

Just wait until you have made 30 or more of some component, and find out it is short by 2 inches. or the cut was suppose to be angled the other way.:ws:

I recommend just making one frame or box the first time then a batch of 3 to 5 before mass producing. Now if only I could follow my own recommendation.:waiting:

 

[oldfordguy]

Experience is a rough teacher because she gives the test first and the lesson afterwards!

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

> I'd like to see some pics of your jigs and maybe a brief explanation on how they work.

This one is very simple ...

It is essentially just a stop-block that works with my Makita miter saw to ensure that 19 7/8" boards are exactly that. It look complicated because it has to fit around those black workpiece support bars that came with the saw.

Due to the way I construct my hive bodies from recycled 1x4s, I also need an equal number of pieces that are 19 1/8" long. To cut those with this same jig, I simply put a 3/4" shim (shim not pictured) in between the jig endstop and the end of the board. I paint the shim a distinctive color so I can find it later.




This is a 'sliding table' jig is for cutting the hive boards to a specific width. There is a wooden rail on the underside of the jig that rides in the miter slot of the saw. You can see the stop blocks glued to the sliding table that keep the boards in place while the jig slides past the blade. In this case I added three adjusting screws to the jig so I could make fine adjustments to the cut, but I rarely need to adjust those.

Those adjustment screws were made by drilling a 'through' hole in the wood sized for the machine screw diameter, and the following up with a larger bit that is slightly smaller than the mating nut diameter. The larger hole only goes far enough to seat the nut. Put some Titebond in the hole, then force the nut (threaded onto the screw) into the hole - the wood deforms slightly to accommodate the hex shape of the nut and by the time the glue sets it is plenty solid.

I use this same jig to cut both the 19.875" boards and the 16.25" boards to the correct width. Also, by installing a dado blade, the same jig can be used to cut the 5/8" rabbet for the frame rests in the 16.25" boards by inserting a suitable shim in between the guide screws and the workpiece. Note the photo above also shows the white-painted 5/8" shim off to the side.


This photo shows the 5/8" shim in place for cutting the 5/8" frame rabbet. However, I did not install the dado blade for this photo, so you will just have to visualize that part. Note that the board being rabbetted still rides on the sliding jig, so you need to keep in mind the diameter of your dado blade when selecting material for the base of the sliding table. If the thickness of the plywood of the jig is too great, you might not have the ability to cut a rabbet as deep as you wish. My dado blades are 8" diameter, but I understand others may be smaller.

If the proportions of the sliding jig looks odd to you, keep in mind that these are set to cut 1x4s. I use two trimmed 1x4s to make all boxes (because I can get recycled 1x4s for free) for my "medium boxes only" apiary. I cut the recycled side pieces to length, then 'joint' the best edge on my jointer. Then the remaining rough edge of the board is trimmed to size with the sliding jig shown above.

While this sliding jug is for cutting 1x4s, certainly it could have been made to accommodate 1x8s if that is what you want to cut - just use a larger plywood piece and set the edge-stop back appropriately.


I created another sliding jig to dado the ends of the boards to make the rabbet style corner joints. No photo, but sliding jigs are all pretty much the same concept with a miter slot guide on the bottom, and whatever it takes up top to hold the workpiece in place. If you decide to make your own frames, then there is more jigs involved.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

The entire hive body (with stacked pairs of 1x4s trimmed to 3 5/16" each) is assembled with glue around a gluing jig all at the same time then clamped in all directions, and then stapled. I do this over the winter in a wood heated shop, so I have plenty of time available for this method. While using recycled wood does not involve a cash outlay, the tradeoff is a time outlay. But that tradeoff is fine with me.

.

 

[marshmasterpat]

Radar - I follow your example, just with a lot less tools and low production numbers. Saw that you said you are using a jointer on the seam. One day I might have a jointer but at this time I don't have access to one. I have been just cutting them really straight on a friends nice table saw, then added glue and clamp the heck out of the boards. Hope they work for the long haul but they are working for now.

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

I had a jointer for some years before I considered beekeeping. I couldn't financially justify buying a jointer just to make bee equipment, that is for sure.

Note that while I use a jointer for one edge of my boards, it would be quite easy to use the sliding table jig pictured to edge both sides of the board. Just set it up so that the first pass cuts off enough to have a clean edge on one edge of the board, flip the board over, add a shim between the jig and the workpiece, and trim the other edge of the board.

Using the saw for both edges would actually be faster for me, but it would mean that slightly more wood is trimmed off each board. Since some of my recycled 1x4 boards are of varying dimensions to start with, I would end up with a lower yield of the 3 5/16" wide pieces that I need. Using the jointer allows me to take off only the minimum necessary to get a square edge on any given board, but takes more time.

 

[sqkcrk]

We always learn more from our mistakes than from our successes, no matter what we are doing. The trick is to learn and not to make the same mistake again.