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I split one of my hives on April 5 and purposely moved the existing queen to the new hive. I checked the old hive in one week, April12, and saw a new queen cell. I checked in one more week, April 19, and the queen cell was open. I just checked again today and saw multiple eggs in many of the cells. I searched very carefully and did not find the queen. There was some decent-size larvae along with the multiple eggs, so I am guessing the laying worker started laying about when the new queen emerged and may have killed her. I have done splits many, many times before and never had a worker start laying that quickly. What do any of you suggest to find or stop the laying worker so I can install a new queen and they will not kill her? I also saw something odd. There was an empty, open queen cell on one frame, but it was almost tow inches long.
 

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I split one of my hives on April 5 and purposely moved the existing queen to the new hive. I checked the old hive in one week, April12, and saw a new queen cell. I checked in one more week, April 19, and the queen cell was open. I just checked again today and saw multiple eggs in many of the cells. I searched very carefully and did not find the queen. There was some decent-size larvae along with the multiple eggs, so I am guessing the laying worker started laying about when the new queen emerged and may have killed her. I have done splits many, many times before and never had a worker start laying that quickly. What do any of you suggest to find or stop the laying worker so I can install a new queen and they will not kill her? I also saw something odd. There was an empty, open queen cell on one frame, but it was almost tow inches long.
I would put a frame of eggs/larva in & see if they draw out & charge any queen cells. Young queens sometimes place multiple eggs in cells when they first start laying. It's been my experience that LW's plop eggs on the cell walls while young queens usually lay multiple eggs on the cell bottom. just a thought.
 

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It sounds to me like your new queen did not get back from mating flight and get started laying for whatever reason. The remaining hive turns laying worker and tries to build a cell in desperation of needing a queen. That long cell you see is the result, trying to make a queen from unfertilized egg/larva. The bees are desperate and will make you a good queen if you give them a frame of eggs to work with. This has happened a few times to me.

If the hive stays laying worker for to long, then they will become almost impossible to repair until all the bees alive are cycled out from death. That's why adding a frame of eggs once a week can take 3-5 weeks to work, because the hive was too far gone into laying worker mode. It sounds to me like your hive is till desperate to have a queen since they made that long drone/queen cell, so try giving a frame with good amount of eggs from a good hive to it. If you want to give them a queen, try giving one that is between 2 frames of open larva with adhering bees. It may work since they seem to want a queen still. But sometimes that don't work, but usually when the hive is too far gone into laying worker mode.

Ok, another way I've done is to add a queen right box of bees with brood to the laying worker hive but over an excluder, then remove the excluder after a week or two. I've had this method work a few times for me also. It all depends on what you want as to what you will do with your situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would put a frame of eggs/larva in & see if they draw out & charge any queen cells. Young queens sometimes place multiple eggs in cells when they first start laying. It's been my experience that LW's plop eggs on the cell walls while young queens usually lay multiple eggs on the cell bottom. just a thought.
The multiple eggs were all at the bottom of the cells. I will put a frame of eggs and larvae from another hive in there and see if they make a new queen cell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It sounds to me like your new queen did not get back from mating flight and get started laying for whatever reason. The remaining hive turns laying worker and tries to build a cell in desperation of needing a queen. That long cell you see is the result, trying to make a queen from unfertilized egg/larva. The bees are desperate and will make you a good queen if you give them a frame of eggs to work with. This has happened a few times to me.

If the hive stays laying worker for to long, then they will become almost impossible to repair until all the bees alive are cycled out from death. That's why adding a frame of eggs once a week can take 3-5 weeks to work, because the hive was too far gone into laying worker mode. It sounds to me like your hive is till desperate to have a queen since they made that long drone/queen cell, so try giving a frame with good amount of eggs from a good hive to it. If you want to give them a queen, try giving one that is between 2 frames of open larva with adhering bees. It may work since they seem to want a queen still. But sometimes that don't work, but usually when the hive is too far gone into laying worker mode.

Ok, another way I've done is to add a queen right box of bees with brood to the laying worker hive but over an excluder, then remove the excluder after a week or two. I've had this method work a few times for me also. It all depends on what you want as to what you will do with your situation.
I will open the hive again tomorrow and try to look up inside the very long queen cell. My hives are top bar, so I cannot tilt the frame too much or it will break off.
 

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Lot of ways to go and all good advice above.

I personally newspaper combine them back to a strong hive with a solid laying queen. Once things calm down you can then split back out the colony.

Adding a frame of brood to a laying worker is hit or miss but worth a shot. LW hives can sure be stubborn.
 

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Look up Screen Combine by FlowerPlanter on here. I've been using that method to correct LW ever since I read it. Fixed every time.
Did a search but couldn't find it.

Was wondering if it's the same method I used last year. I had a swarm that I caught that was fairly small. But they settled in and the queen was laying. Found out one of my stronger hives had gone laying worker. Guy at the local bee store said to move the queen right hive into the place with the laying worker. Place a single screen on top of it. Then place the laying worker on the screen. Opening on the top of the LW hive.

Let it sit like that for about 10 days and removed the screen.

Ended up being my strongest hive.
 

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Did a search but couldn't find it.

<snip>
Ended up being my strongest hive.
That's it. works great, especially when you catch it early and there isn't too many drones yet.

Here is the original thread if someone else is searching. I put the wrong terms. I keep it bookmarked on my home computer.


 

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Thanks. The only think I did differnt was put the queen right hive below. That way foragers from the LW would return to the queen right and the any airborne (brood?) pheromones would rise up in the LW hive.
 

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I just checked again today and saw multiple eggs in many of the cells. I searched very carefully and did not find the queen. There was some decent-size larvae along with the multiple eggs, so I am guessing the laying worker

disagree with your guess
not finding,,, many times I cannot find her either, not seeing is not always no queen

multi egg, if 1 is centered in the bottom center you are likely good.
often a new queen does mis fires and i guess "multi fires" as she gets started.

wait for 5 - 7 days and see if the eggs cap as worker or drone then let us know.

Me thinks you are fine.

GG
 
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