[bjorn]

I just finished Lazutin's book and am currently reading Layen's book. Of course that has triggered impulsive surfing of Horizontal Hives and misc other deep box videos. I'm struck with a couple questions that some of you may be able to answer. First some context... I have all medium lang equipment. I am located in northern IL... 6 miles from the WI border so it gets pretty cold here for months on end. My bees never winter particularly well. I am stationary, so transporting hives is not a concern.

I'd like to repurpose as much equipment as possible. I have of course found the plans for double deep lang long frames... ie 2 deep lang frames connected. In my case, that would equate to 3 medium langs. It's doable, but my concern is the amount of wood between usable wax. Is it enough to be concerned with? It seems that continuous wax long frames would be better from a winter cluster movement standpoint.

I have a lot of drawn frames, so I'm aiming toward giving them as much as possible. I've seen plans for a jig to install 2 medium langs sideways in a Layen's hive with a shim on top. Is this only intended to be temporary so brood could be hatched out once a transfer is made? I assume the drawn med frames could not be left for the bees use afterward because the angle of the cells is 90 degrees off what it would be naturally. So that would leave the option of a medium lang on top with an open "extension" attached which would provide a continuous area for brood. Again, will this likely be an issue for the cluster to access the honey in the medium portion of the frame in winter?

It seems the simplest would be an insulated lang width deep box. That way, my equipment would all fit. But there seems to be endless debate on whether this is too much area, aka too wide, for the bees to effectively heat, even with division boards. The layen's widths seems much more accepted and has an extractor available to accept it. The extra deep lang does not that I've seen. I currently own an extractor to fit medium frames, so that has me leaning toward somehow utilizing (screwing together) some of the frames I already have.

I realize this has been much debated, but I'm looking for more recent feedback from some of you who posted about it several years ago. It seems most of the posts on the subject here are older. How have the various techniques worked in colder climates? Any advise, insight will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[crofter]

I toyed with the idea but dont want to deal with a foot deep frame a foot and half wide. I think the food deep or so is a benefit for wintering but the lang width is a negative. Ability to extract and availabilty frames and foundatin for Langs makes interesting Gregs idea of joining two of them together on their long sides then rotating them to high and narrow but capable of being easily split to extract. I was thinking it possible to then turn them crosswise in a lang box. I have decided to try Dadant depth lang frames instead but would review the other plans if I get bored and want to try something different.

 

[Gray Goose]

Hi Bjorn,

the wood of the frame inbetween is not an issue IMO
You have the answer "Insulation" IMO very over looked item.

google Buckeye Hive this was used long ago.
I have put together some this winter. 8F Lang hives.

I made the inside side 1 5/8 longer, then the outside end 1 5/8 longer as well, added more wood until I had a double wall hive.
Made 5 hives of D+D+M+M if survival is the primary concern, I would stay with the chimney set up of the lang over the long hive, and try to come up with something with some R value. the standard 3/4 pine is like 1.3 per inch so around 1 R for the normal hive. with 1.5 inch foam and the second wall you can get close to 9 or 10. IMO you will have better over winter survival with Insulation. could even bond 2 inch to your hives for a test before doing the investment of time and funds. As well I plan to use normal supers so you can still use the mediums you now have a supers. My Northern Mich hives winter better in 8 frame, could be a random data point but it works, for me.

good luck

GG

 

[crofter]

GG, your home harvested and sawn pine is "wooden eye candy,"

 

[GregB]

I've seen plans for a jig to install 2 medium langs sideways in a Layen's hive with a shim on top. Is this only intended to be temporary so brood could be hatched out once a transfer is made?

Like I said many times - why bother with that temp, voodoo shim?
Just make your hive just a tad deeper and make that compatibility permanent and done with it.
It is really that simple.

I assume the drawn med frames could not be left for the bees use afterward because the angle of the cells is 90 degrees off what it would be naturally....

Again, I said many times - bees don't care.
Turn the cells 90 degrees and be done with it - bees will totally use the cells.
That simple it is.

Dr. Leo does all bunch of unnecessary moves just to stay true to his dimensions as if that magic Layens format is irreplaceable. Not so.

Build to this size (attached) and be done with it.

 

[crofter]

That will fit nicely placed crosswise in 10 frame deep Lang hive bodies stacked 2 high.

 

[GregB]

That will fit nicely placed crosswise in 10 frame deep Lang hive bodies stacked 2 high.

Exactly.
This is how my hybrids setup - from repurposed 10 frame Langs - though 3 medium boxes - perfect fit for 12 frames crosswise.

 

[bjorn]

Thanks all. I was in my shop studying the frames yesterday thinking it sure would be a lot easier to just attach 2 of the mediums together.

Exactly.
This is how my hybrids setup - from repurposed 10 frame Langs - though 3 medium boxes - perfect fit for 12 frames crosswise.

So you cut frame rests on the long side of the box or attach wood on the inside of the long side to adjust for proper bee space? Then 6 of your "double" frames fit in next to each other? I think I'm visualizing it properly.

 

[bjorn]

Greg V do you have a link to any posts on your hybrid? Again assuming, but you run deep langs (3 mediums to be precise) for the brood chamber then super on top of that? Or is the medium box up top in the pics just to accommodate a feeder?

 

[Gray Goose]

GG, your home harvested and sawn pine is "wooden eye candy,"

it is fun to play when the wood is free and i am not sure I can use it all. not free totally the saw bill was $1300
I have 10,000 feet of it, 75% is 7 inch and 10 inch boards, nicely sized to 6 5/8 and 9 5/8
i had 7 piles and am 3/4 thru the first one so will need to find an inside place this or next fall.
I was planning to replace all my old gear for the last time in my lifetime. then coast..

GG

 

[crofter]

Exactly.
This is how my hybrids setup - from repurposed 10 frame Langs - though 3 medium boxes - perfect fit for 12 frames crosswise.

Yep, three mediums stacked, not two deeps; I was forgetting about the heavy master topbar.

 

[GregB]

Greg V do you have a link to any posts on your hybrid? Again assuming, but you run deep langs (3 mediums to be precise) for the brood chamber then super on top of that? Or is the medium box up top in the pics just to accommodate a feeder?

Here you go - assorted details just for you:

Hybrid modified Layens.

OK, looks like I never created a unified topic on making the hybrid Layens hives. Here goes then - will put together few notes and pictures on what I know and what I have done. Because I had many unused Lang boxes, I repurposed them to make hybrid Layens. The idea came from this blueprint, but...

www.beesource.com

 

[Gray Goose]

here is another person with all mediums may be worth the read.

GG

 

[bjorn]

Thanks. These have given me some great ideas.

 

[Gray Goose]

I've had bees since "78" every year I try something different.
keep looking at ways to better your Apiary, I enjoy the journey.

I also am a proponent of the "where" not every place is a good bee place. I have bees in 6 places, farthest is 4 hours away. The insulated hives go in the UP a 7th place. EVERY yard has good and bad features. If you have a friend or relative with a farm or such type property, keeping ants, mice and bears, into account try other places for your bees as well.

good luck

GG

 

[bjorn]

Thanks, I've expanded to multiple locations for swarm traps but not actual hives. I have to trap more before I can expand in that manner. But I agree, the journey is fun part.

 

[bjorn]

I have an abundance of old wooden arrows... I would think these would be sufficient to serve as topbars. I'm all about trying to repurpose whatever I can. Thoughts?

 

[GregB]

Thoughts?

Should work but I would add a couple of zip to secure your "top bar" to the frames.
Keep in mind - right now the weak spots are those ears you drilled through and they might give under load.
The ears alone will hold the potentially high weight.
Well, the 1/2" hole in each ear is pretty big and weakens it.
Instead, I use metal rods cut from the political signs for the same function (smaller hole - less damage to the ear - strong enough)

 

[bjorn]

I wanted to use those sign stands, but got tired of tripping on them and scrapped them. The hole is 5/16, but definitely weakens the ear.

 

[bjorn]

9 ga wire seems like it will do the trick with much smaller holes in the ears.