[beginnerhives]

I am just a beginner but my real job in concerned with studying how refined sugars has effected human health. Unrefined cane sugar is very healthy for you because it is packed with the nutrients that support the metabolism of glucose. Companies remove all the nutrients in the cane sugar and concentrate pure glucose. That is dumped into our food supply and along with refined starches like pasta (which is pure glucose) is slowly increasing our rates of diabetes and cancer. That is not the only factor in the equation but a significant one. We live on antibiotics because our immune system is compromised which allows the bugs to take over.

How do this apply to bees? The point is we steal the honey they produce and feed them the same empty calorie crap (pure empty glucose) and expect them not to suffer the consequences. Fact is honey is the perfect food for bees because it has the balanced nutrition to keep them healthy. So it is no big surprise that our bees are sick all the time and need so much medication.

Has anyone tried this? Never extract any honey in the fall but leave it ALL for the BEES. Then in the spring when they are in full swing of honey production take all the honey that is left at that point? This ensures they have a continual supply of high quality nutrition and never have to consume empty calories. I do not rely on honey production for my income so I can afford to only extract what they do not need to stay healthy. I predict after a few generations I will begin to lose less bees to disease. Has anyone had any success following natures plan?
Thanks.

 

[CentralPAguy]

I am not sure that the correlation can be made that if refined sugar is harmful to humans, then it must also be for bees. But keep us posted on what your studies find out as that is how we grow as a group.

 

[Brent Bean]

To compare human disease like diabetes and cancer to honeybees is comparing apples to oranges. Honeybees cannot suffer from either because of physiology. Example humans have a pancreas honeybees do not. Humans have red blood honeybees do not. Humans live app. 75 years honey bees four to eight weeks.

They do require have the same nutritional requirements, honeybees need complex carbohydrates and proteins. But acquire them threw nectar which is complex sugars like cane sugar. Then convert them to simple sugar and protein from pollen.
Since you are a beginner, never take all their honey only the surplus. I only feed sugar syrup when they are in need. Most years I don’t need to feed them at all. I do feed when I am starting colonies form packages on new foundation or the stimulate them to increase brood production for early pollination, needs like blueberries. Or queen rearing.

Ensuring they have adequate food reserves in the fall is essential to keeping your bees alive threw the winter, in my areas 60 to 90 pounds will get them threw the harshest winter. Leaving all the honey then extracting is spring would seem implacable and unnecessary.

I don’t take antibiotics unless I’m sick so why would you just dust your bees with antibiotics unless they are sick. It’s been many years since I have needed to.

 

[alpha6]

Your post is wrong on so many points I can't begin to address them all. But I will address this, 1:1 and 2:1 is actually easier for bees to digest then honey. Honey is a survival food for bees. In order to be healthy they also need pollen and different types of pollen. This is what provides their protein and essential amino acids.

Second, feed, while important is not the only factor in diseases that bees get. There are a host of diseases, AFB, EFB, mites, nosema and others that have nothing to do with the honey in the hive. And speaking of nosema, 1:1 has been shown to be an effective way to get rid of nosema in your bees.

I use sugar as a feed to my bees with no flow is on and during spring build up. I also use it in pollen patties I feed to them. My bees are healthy and build up into nice strong colonies. I don't use medication in any of my operation. Your assumption that if you feed sugar you need to medicate is not only wrong, but also leads me to believe you have not done much research into your hypothesis.

Good luck with your bees, but I suggest you read up on best practices...I have seen hives with loads of honey die out from beekeeper neglect.

 

[honeydreams]

If you read Ross conrad in bee Culture this month he goes in to HFCS and the harm it does to bees. it is a eye opener.

 

[CentralPAguy]

Honeydreams,

Are you talking about the Feb or Jan issue? Please don't tell me that it is the Feb issue as I will scream. For the past two months, I was lucky to get my magazine by the second week into the month.

You know when you are hungry for a magazine to arrive and it doesn't. So please tell me that it is the Jan issue. It would be too painful to know that fellow beeks receive this wonderful magazine prior to the month, while I have had to wait. Just maybe, my postman reads it, which would explain why I get it so late....

 

[beginnerhives]

To compare human disease like diabetes and cancer to honeybees is comparing apples to oranges. Honeybees cannot suffer from either because of physiology. Example humans have a pancreas honeybees do not. Humans have red blood honeybees do not. Humans live app. 75 years honey bees four to eight weeks.

Sorry I did not mean to imply that honey bees get human diseases. I just meant to suggest if humans are more susceptible to diseases when eating a diet high in refined foods including sugar than it would only make sense that bees would also be more susceptible to disease with an increased percentage of feeding isolated glucose.

alpha6. Sorry I did not mean to imply that feeding ANY glucose water would make the bees dependant on medication. My bad. I think it is possible that the more percentage of glucose water a bee consumes the higher chance that bee will become more susceptible to disease. Most humans do not consume only refined sugar. Like bees do not only consume glucose water. Humans get a variety of other foods but when human cultures become civilized and eat a higher percentage of refined foods common to industrialized nations they developed more susceptibility to disease.
I agree with you that bees probably can digest pure glucose much faster than honey but that does not mean it more nutritious.

I do have a question. How did Bees survive before the advent of chemicals to kill off all the bugs. I assume bees consuming pure glucose 1:1 is a new thing in their history of evolution. I imagine bees evolved consuming natures food like pollen and honey. They did not seem to need different kinds of medication to defend them from the invaders because it did not exist. If there were no medications available today what would happen to the big operations that depend on the drugs because their bees are deprived of a greater percentage of their honey than the smaller hobbist. I am really asking but I bet that the rampant diseases were not common to beek at the turn of the century. I am sure someone can fill in the pieces for me. When did it become common to feed bees Pure glucose or frutose which is much worse if it matches the effects in humans? When did the major bee diseases hit the scene?

It was common to believe our food only consisted of carbs, fats, and protein. Then researchers learned about the vitamins and minerals. At one time researchers thought those few nutrients were all you need to become healthy.
Just in the last few years researchers have discovered over 5000 phytochemicals plants make that were unknown to us before. They think there are many more to be discovered. For example, in a carrot there are about 300 phytochemicals present that keep us healthy.
The point is the pollen is collected from a variety of plants. I bet protein is not the only valuable component to pollen. I would think bees are collecting hundreds of other phytochemicals present in nectar and pollen which contribute to the bees health. There are probably many known and unknown factors in natural bee food (honey and pollen) which contributes to their health and ability to fight disease. If bees follow the same evolutionary principle as humans then The more percentage of glucose water we substitute with honey in their diet the more likely that bee colony will lack the nutrients required to resist disease.

What got me thinking about this was when I started beek and I was shocked at all the chemicals beek wanted me to put in the hive to keep them healthy. Once I learned about the sugar water it seemed to make sense to me. I just wanted to see what the experts thought. Thanks.

 

[beginnerhives]

If you read Ross conrad in bee Culture this month he goes in to HFCS and the harm it does to bees. it is a eye opener.

Sorry but what is HFCS? Thanks in advance.

 

[RayMarler]

HFCS is High Fructos Corn Syrup, which many commercial beeks feed to bees because of it's ability to last much longer than sugar syrup without spoiling or yeasting. also because it is more readily available than sugar syrup and is probably cheaper as well, not positive on that point. I myself used it for one year then read some negative bee health reports about it so I stopped after that one season. Now, I strive to not have to feed bees but will when needed, and only use sugar water syrup at those times.

 

[BigDaddyDS]

HFCS is High-Fructose Corn Syrup
-----
There is a lot to be learned through researching honeybee nutrition. If that's a path you choose to go down, I would offer one simple caution. Don't let your own personal bias, and possibly an agenda against refined food stuff, lead your research. To truly come to scientific conclusions, one has to abandon beliefs and rely solely on fact.

Refined white table sugar ISN'T glucose. It's sucrose. Sucrose is a compound molecule of glucose and fructose. Honey ALSO is composed of glucose and fructose, by the way. 1:1 sugar syrup is actually nutritionally close to nectar.

As you do your research, you'll find that your Sugar in the Raw, which some people believe is "better" for you than refined white table suger, contains some of the molasses and impurities that would prove toxic to bees. Sugar in the Raw is NOT a product that you want to feed with.

Leaving plenty of feed (in the form of honey) is a no-brainer. Honey, most times, IS the best food for the bees. Especially when it's composed of mixed forage. However, you'll also find that not ALL honey is nutritionally complete for the bees either. Even some HONEY can be toxic to the bees!

In fact, you'll find that there are a lot of nutritional differences between humans and bees. But don't let yourself be clouded by your own beliefs.

 

[honeydreams]

Are you talking about the Feb or Jan issue?QUOTE]
its was in the jan issue.

 

[Brent Bean]

Beginnerhives:

Your question, how did honeybees live before the advent of all the chemicals to control the bugs?
The same way they do now, if someone is telling you to dump chemicals in you hives, just to prevent them form getting sick in my opinion it’s bad advice. Are chemicals needed? Sometimes, works the same way for me. When I come down with a bad case of Montezuma’s revenge I will take chemicals to stop it. When my bees develop a case of nosema I will treat them as well. When all is well I don’t.
As far as the bugs you refer to varroa and tracheal mites didn’t show up in North America until the 80’s it set the beekeeping world on it’s head. Action was required until we could get a handle on it and not have honeybees become extinct. Today many other management programs have gotten many beekeepers off the chemical treadmill. This is known as IPM (integrated pest management) example resistant strains of bees like Russian, Buckfast, New World Carnolian and Minnesota hygienic lines. Sugar dusting, screen bottom boards and many other methods. The chemical treadmill was only intended to be a crutch. I found that honeybees are very resilient despite bad decisions made by me.

 

[alpha6]

"How did Bees survive before the advent of chemicals to kill off all the bugs." Actually the native American Honey Bee didn't and actually died long before man got in the area.

Like others have said, 1:1 is a good feed and very close to nectar. HFCS can have toxic effects on bees and you can get the info from Randy Olivers web site if you don't get the articles.

Lastly, search the use of Essential Oils as an alternative for treating your bees with medication and learn what to look for so you know when to treat and when it isn't needed. You can find lots of info on EO's again on Randy Olivers site as well as searching this forum...lots of great info there.

Best of luck and may you always have great bees.

 

[Michael Bush]

>Has anyone tried this? Never extract any honey in the fall but leave it ALL for the BEES.

Sure but most of it is so crystallized in the spring that you can't extract it. However there are many who believe that honey is better for bees than sugar and try to leave them enough for winter. There is research to show that nectar and honey promote "good" microbes in the gut of the bees that displaces things like AFB and Nosema and that these quickly die out when feeding sugar. This probably has more to do with pH and micronutrients than it does with how refined the sugar is. Research shows that unrefined sugar is hard on bees.

Many of the fathers of modern beekeeping firmly believed that honey was more nutritious for bees than sugar syrup and many today still believe that. Read G.M. Doolittle, C.C. Miller, Richard Taylor, Jay Smith etc.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmorethan.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm#naturalfood
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

 

[devdog108]

I do have a question. How did Bees survive before the advent of chemicals to kill off all the bugs. I assume bees consuming pure glucose 1:1 is a new thing in their history of evolution. I imagine bees evolved consuming natures food like pollen and honey. They did not seem to need different kinds of medication to defend them from the invaders because it did not exist. If there were no medications available today what would happen to the big operations that depend on the drugs because their bees are deprived of a greater percentage of their honey than the smaller hobbist. I am really asking but I bet that the rampant diseases were not common to beek at the turn of the century. I am sure someone can fill in the pieces for me. When did it become common to feed bees Pure glucose or frutose which is much worse if it matches the effects in humans? When did the major bee diseases hit the scene?

It was common to believe our food only consisted of carbs, fats, and protein. Then researchers learned about the vitamins and minerals. At one time researchers thought those few nutrients were all you need to become healthy.
Just in the last few years researchers have discovered over 5000 phytochemicals plants make that were unknown to us before. They think there are many more to be discovered. For example, in a carrot there are about 300 phytochemicals present that keep us healthy.

As many have said before me, they didn't make it here in what we call the Good Ol'e USA. Hence European Honeybees. BUT, I was ready somewhere the other day about CCD and the different diseases HB's have dealt with. If I can find the book or article, you will see that CCD did happen in the late 1800's early 1900's. They just didnt know what to call it. The other diseases did exists but because of human evolution, in particular science, they just didn't really know how or what to call it or deal with it. The "great die off" in 2006 and 2007 was by far the worst experienced that we know of, but there were other instances throughout the 18-1900's. Cancer in humans and diabetes did occur throughout history, but there was just no name for them, nor the ability to diagnose them like we have today. Most beeks want to leave the honey on for them, an then take the "SPARE". Ask 10 beeks, get 10 different answers(that should be the BS addage). I was talking to lady at the gym who use to suffer from really really life threatening allergies. On a doctors advice, she started taking honey from local beeks(she came to me only when she found out I had bees, the other beeks no longer raise them and she wants my honey). She now has no allergies than affect her more than any other. She would bet you that because of the local diversity in the honey here, her immune system was able to build up, and help her body fight off these allergies. Once upon a time, everyone thought the world was flat........imagine what we will know tomorrow....I can tell you that thanks to these guys on BS and the 1000's of girls in that little hive in my back yard, I have been taken back to school, and for the first time in a VERY LONG TIME, i understand more about nature than i ever cared to learn about before. i am facinated by them every day, and learning about them forces you to learn about the natural diversity and fragility of our worldy ecosystem.......

 

[CentralPAguy]

Beginnerhives,

I know that you want to keep your bees chemical free. Yet your bees are out visiting who knows what and bringing back chemicals to the hive. There are alot of pesticides out there and some are distributed systemicly within the plant system.

When I read claims about organic honey, I wonder how they manage to keep the bees on their acreage.

 

[jnaurot]

Hey CentralPAguy check this out

Bee Culture
Your February 2010 Bee Culture - Digital Edition is now available
Thu, 1/14/10 7KB

I get the online version - it's way too long till March...

 

[beginnerhives]

>Has anyone tried this? Never extract any honey in the fall but leave it ALL for the BEES.http://

Thanks for the great info.
I will have time later tonight to dive into it. Since I do not have much experiene in beek I appriciate learning from all of your collective experiences.

Does anyone have any information of the chemical composition of nectar? I will try to find it on my own but I would appriciate any help. thanks again :gh:

 

[Michael Bush]

I know the honey board has the chemical composition of Honey somewhere on their site. Except for the effect of the invertase from the bees on the nectar and the removal of water, nectar should be similar. In other words, the water content is less in honey (more in nectar) and there is more sucrose in nectar that is broken down by the invertase in the honey into fructose (levulose) and glucose (dextrose).

 

[Michael Palmer]

The point is we steal the honey they produce and feed them the same empty calorie crap (pure empty glucose) and expect them not to suffer the consequences.

Has anyone tried this? Never extract any honey in the fall but leave it ALL for the BEES.

We? Mark Twain said only people who should say "WE" are politicians and people with tape worm.

I have to disagree with your comments. I don't steal all the bees' honey and feed back sugar. I'm running 750+ colonies and many hundreds of nucs. My management plan does not favor feeding sugar. I manage my bees so the Fall flow will be left for winter feed. I weigh all my colonies and only feed those colonies that are light, and only what they need to survive the winter and early spring. So, what if the bees didn't get a Fall flow...as happened this year. Should I allow my bees to starve because I don't want them ingesting empty calorie glucose crap...sucrose actually...???

As far as leaving all the summer produced honey on the colonies...with many colonies producing 100-200 pounds, just how would that work out?

I think you've been reading too many fantasy bee books like the one cited here in this thread. Some of us are diligent beekeepers and respectful of our bees. Give us a break.