[Cascade Hunter]

Anyone know what the ruling is on this? Does the IRS consider bees as livestock? (That is filing from business to farmer.) I find no clear ruling on this on their website.

 

[Saltybee]

Prior threads generally favor schedule F over C with a few pollinators going for treatment as a rental of hives. (with a rental contract)

 

[sqkcrk]

Anyone know what the ruling is on this? Does the IRS consider bees as livestock? (That is filing from business to farmer.) I find no clear ruling on this on their website.

A person who files a Schedule F can claim an expense when bees are purchased, queens or packages. But claiming a loss when those same bees die is not something one can do. Whether they are livestock or not, I don't know. I claim Queens Purchased as an expense.

 

[Cascade Hunter]

Looks like schedule F is a GO. Thank you Karina.

 

[snl]

You file schedule F....

 

[bluegrass]

I file Schedule F. You may file a schedule A (hobby income) if you can show that you don't do it with intention to make a profit.

 

[Daniel Y]

A person who files a Schedule F can claim an expense when bees are purchased, queens or packages. But claiming a loss when those same bees die is not something one can do. Whether they are livestock or not, I don't know. I claim Queens Purchased as an expense.

Just as general information. Bees are considered an investment and any sale of them considered a return on investment. Things such as treatments, sugar or pollen sub to feed even gas would be expenses. The way I look at it anything I spend money on that I cannot resell or I will use up is an expense. The bees themselves are and investment and the equipment weather I intend to sell it use it to get bees sold or keep it from myself and possible sell it later do to upgrade. down grade or simply change in management methods I consider costs.

Investment is intended to increase in value. Expenses i consider those things that will be used up completely and Costs are those things I consider equipment so I can get the work done. A vehicle for example is both a cost and an expense. the cost is the purchase price of the vehicle expense is the gas, maintenance, insurance and registration. They are the money that must be paid to get to the return on investment.

 

[Michael Palmer]

One benefit of schedule F, if you make more than half your income from farming…If you file by March 1, you don't have to pay quarterly estimated tax.

 

[Acebird]

:scratch: I thought quarterly vs. annually was based on how much you made or owed the Government.

 

[sqkcrk]

A vehicle for example is both a cost and an expense. the cost is the purchase price of the vehicle expense is the gas, maintenance, insurance and registration.

So DanielY, are you claiming both the expense of the vehicle and the expense of the fuel, maintenance and registration? Seems like double or triple dipping to me.

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

As I read it, there are special rules for 'qualified farmers' regarding estimated tax payments.

Special Rules for Qualified Farmers
The following special estimated tax rules apply if you are a [HIGHLIGHT] qualified farmer[/HIGHLIGHT] for 2013.
You do not have to pay estimated tax if you file your 2013 tax return and pay all the tax due by March 3, 2014.

copied from Publication 225 'Farmer's Tax Guide' Page 86 Chapter 15 Estimated Tax
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p225.pdf

An individual is a [HIGHLIGHT]qualified farmer [/HIGHLIGHT]for 2013 if at least two-thirds of his or her gross income from all sources for 2012 or 2013 was from farming.


copied from Publication 225 'Farmer's Tax Guide' Page 85 Chapter 15 Estimated Tax
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p225.pdf

As they always say, 'consult a qualified tax professional' .... March 3 is a Monday in 2014. I would imagine that cutoff date may shift slightly in other years.

 

[sqkcrk]

And today is the 9th.

 

[snl]

So DanielY, are you claiming both the expense of the vehicle and the expense of the fuel, maintenance and registration? Seems like double or triple dipping to me.

For tax purposes, you capitalize and depreciate the cost of the vehicle (which includes registration) and expense the fuel, maintenance & insurance...

 

[sqkcrk]

The fuel, maintenance and registration are claimed in one of two ways, mileage or actual receipts. Seemed like Daniel wanted to claim both ways.

 

[Saltybee]

For tax purposes, you capitalize and depreciate the cost of the vehicle (which includes registration) and expense the fuel, maintenance & insurance...

I would place the first registration on the basis side because it was before the vehicle was first placed in service, after that it is a yearly expense.

Which form you should use is dependent on how you are conducting your business. Buy bees in the South, truck them north and sell them; is not farming. Doing it over and over and it is a business of buying and selling, subject to self employment tax. Do it rarely and it is probably just a gain on investment. Buy a package and sell a hive, now you are farming.

Simple system we have.

 

[Cascade Hunter]

If I haven't learned anything, I've learned that IRS Pub 225 needs to be simplified. What a frigin' mess!

 

[Bmango]

You can consider it or claim it anyway you want, but if you get audited the IRS may consider it very differently."An investment?" is a stretch.

 

[Saltybee]

You can consider it or claim it anyway you want, but if you get audited the IRS may consider it very differently."An investment?" is a stretch.

That depends on many things. If that was the only activity, probably safe. Blended in with other beekeeping activities; unsafe.

 

[snl]

I would place the first registration on the basis side because it was before the vehicle was first placed in service, after that it is a yearly expense.

Totally agree........

 

[Saltybee]

In real life, I'm cheap enough that I would make sure I placed it in service on the temporary plate.