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BTW: the grains were added to the human diet only 10K years ago - basically yesterday.

This raises a valid question, do the grains and beans even belong in the proper human diet?

Very well one can argue that the grains/beans don't even properly belong in our daily eat.

As well, one can argue that most modern deceases come from the excessive consumption of grain-based foods (ESPECIALLY refined grain-based foods. This is abnormal per the very basic human biology - human body is not really tuned well to consume lots of grain products.
I am not 100% sure that is accurate. I think the time frame you are referring to is relative to "cultivated" grains and legumes. I would suppose in the hunter/gatherer aspect of life there had to be plenty of opportunity to gather all sorts of seeds, including grains and legumes. It was only when people learned to cultivate such things effectively that they were able to reduce the nomadic lifestyle and be able to stay put. At that point they had an effective food source and animal proteins could punctuate the diet rather than be the mainstay. I believe neanderthal had a major meat diet, and a good 5000 calorie daily requirement. Talk about an expensive lifestyle. Brain activity is predicated on sugar, in theory having access to a lot of caloric staples probably allowed lots of intelligence gains.

What gets most interesting is the choices we have made in cultivated foods vs "weeds". I don't remember if it was in "Stalking The Wild Asparagus" or possibly one of his other books that Euell Gibbons discusses just these aspects of how some things we consider weeds are as healthy if not more so that the foodstuffs that we chose to propagate for our chosen foods. So many things grow in the wild that could have become cultivars, but most of them very few people (Except maybe Bear Grills) will even ever know what they taste like.

In general, I have to believe you about refined grain, and most processed foods in general. The farther away from what it looked like when it was alive the less valuable it is to you. Originally, much of processing was to facilitate storage. Also leading to some dietary freedom because you didn't have to gather food for today's meals today. And later, for transportation, so you could sail the ocean and not have to grow and grind your food on the ship, or live on fish alone.

Interesting thing, however, white enriched flour. Since white bread became such a staple of the diet, flour was chosen as the vehicle for folic acid. This was done specifically so that the folates necessary to prevent neural tube defects in infants could be included in the diet. When the health conscious started eschewing white bread in favor of whole grain goodness (not required to be enriched) or avoiding white flour at all... has raised some issues with increasing instances of such things and how to get folic acid specifically back into the diets of modern women. Similarly we have iodine in our salt, quite necessary for thyroid function, and necessary for the thyroid hormones... but guess what all of the sudden they are demonizing salt, and people stop eating salt. :)

Anyway, such dietary issues, and the failures of the "we know better than you do" nanny state and their silly food pyramids and so forth are always a favorite topic of mine. Imagine that, you would think I would practice a much healthier diet than I do, and not have nearly the amount of avoidable issues.. :)
 

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I am not 100% sure that is accurate. I think the time frame you are referring to is relative to "cultivated" grains and legumes. .....
True - cultivated.
Until that time the grains surely were mixed in too but in small amounts.

But upon the cultivation started, the proportion of the grain/bean in the diet overwhelmed anything else beyond any reasonable level.
Our bodies were not really adapted to such change.

For example, tooth decay explosion beyond any reasonable level took place about 10K years ago - maps directly to diet change:
...roughly 10,000 years ago, humans learned to farm. Grain and other carbohydrates took over the plate, making the human mouth a haven for bacteria that destroy tooth enamel. Ancient farmers had cavities in up to 48% of their teeth, leading scientists to assume that a human jaw with lots of cavities probably came from a farming society.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/tooth-decay-archaeology/4307319/
 

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Absinthe, as soon as I started to read your story, I knew where it was going. Small white pellets, ammonium nitrate. I worked for Royster Clark back in the early 2000's. We had huge bins of the stuff that we loaded onto trucks with a skid steer loader. No problem to get a five gallon pail to take home for the garden sweet corn. I think it was 40-0-0.

With regards to Vegans, anyone know an OLD vegan? My wife may have seen a few middle aged ones at the hospital in which she works. I think she called them cadavers.
 

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Do the varroa add anything to it?
I missed - the varroa are insignificant in any way and don't make it past the strainer anyway.
In the batch I did yesterday I did not find a single varroa - a good sign.
 

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Now, don't get me wrong, I am a simply delightful person and everyone loves me. I certainly wouldn't do anything simply to irritate someone about their dietary choices. However, I have been known to upset the young vegetarian by discussing the origins of the rennet used in the cheese on the pizza they declare a staple in their diet. Not really intending to be mean, but "in for a penny, in for a pound" right?
:)

Ah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the true believers! Many interesting comments here; however, I have no time to comment or even read all at this moment. The bees are calling.

I must say that I don't really give a rip about people's beliefs and lifestyle, so long as they don't try to impose it on me. Live and let live, I guess.

I do remember the young new found Christians who were convinced that I couldn't know God because...............well I wasn't one of them.

And I remember the skinny as a rail fellow who told me that one should only eat the fruit that the tree drops for you to eat. I said, what about broccolli? Could it be that its purpose here on earth is to provide us with food? I should add that mangoes and most other tropicals should be picked prior to their being fully ripe rather than allowed to ripen on the 'vine'.

Well, got to go. I hope you have enjoyed my contribution.
 

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For fathers day i got a gibson guitar which I’m thrilled about, one of the selling points is that they use hide glue on the model (j-35). My argument for vegans is the exploitation and murder of the millions of yeast that go into their micro brews and wines, not much quality of life for the yeast.
 

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For fathers day i got a gibson guitar which I’m thrilled about, one of the selling points is that they use hide glue on the model (j-35). My argument for vegans is the exploitation and murder of the millions of yeast that go into their micro brews and wines, not much quality of life for the yeast.
I have been thinking - every time I bake my home-made sough-dough loaf, billion and billions of little sough-dough culture creatures get baked alive. Sad, but a man gotta eat.
 

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I have been thinking - every time I bake my home-made sough-dough loaf, billion and billions of little sough-dough culture creatures get baked alive. Sad, but a man gotta eat.
right but when you add to your starter, millions of new creatures are created....


GG
 

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right but when you add to your starter, millions of new creatures are created....

GG
Sure.
Kill some.
Raise some again.
Pretty much as if I raise billions of microscopic sheep before I kill and eat them.
I sleep well. LOL
 

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You should look up JP Sears If Meat Eaters acted like Vegans on YouTube. It’s hilarious, and shows how silly some can be about it. 😅🤣
 

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So unaware of the consequences I went to the SS and asked where I could get some urea. Things got quiet and I started getting some looks. The person made a quick phone call, and a 3 piece suit manager comes from somewhere and says "Walk with me..."
I went into our local Farmers Association supply store and picked up a bag of urea, 35-0-0. I knew there would be a security check so I was ready for it. When I went to check out the cashier handed me a form to fill out and took my DL and entered it into the computer. After I filled out the form she typed the info from it into the computer, and then she grilled me a list of questions about where I was going to use it and entered my answers. Finally she rang it up and said "Strip down." So I pulled my tee-shirt off, unbuckled, and started to remove my pants. She freaked out and started yelling "woah, woah, what are you doing?"

"You said strip down."

"Your credit card you idiot! Swipe it with the strip down."

Needless to say, I am not allowed in IFA anymore.
 

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I don't see anything wrong with a vegan diet. I believe that people can do anything, the main thing is that it does not harm others. I'm not vegan, but I don't eat meat. honey, milk, eggs and fish are not a problem for me. It helps my well-being. I use delivery services. My diet lasts only a year, but I see a global change, I got rid of excess weight and began to look younger.
 

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BTW: the grains were added to the human diet only 10K years ago - basically yesterday.

This raises a valid question, do the grains and beans even belong in the proper human diet?

Very well one can argue that the grains/beans don't even properly belong in our daily eat.

As well, one can argue that most modern deceases come from the excessive consumption of grain-based foods (ESPECIALLY refined grain-based foods. This is abnormal per the very basic human biology - human body is not really tuned well to consume lots of grain products.
No grains, no beans, why not add no potatoes, corn, and tomatoes? My question is, what is left for us to eat?

As to the diseases it is my understanding that humans now live a lot longer than they used to live. Maybe there were biblical exceptions to that however, I can't confirm those.

As we live longer, perhaps our immune systems get weakened. And after all, one has to die of something. On my last visit to the doctor, she said that we'd all die of prostate eventually if we lived long enough. In that regard, I eat my pumpkin seeds and I'm okay as far as I know. I work my 50 hives of bees, harvest honey, etc, and my age is revealed by my name on beesource, fwiw.
 

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No grains, no beans, why not add no potatoes, corn, and tomatoes? My question is, what is left for us to eat?

As to the diseases it is my understanding that humans now live a lot longer than they used to live. Maybe there were biblical exceptions to that however, I can't confirm those.

As we live longer, perhaps our immune systems get weakened. And after all, one has to die of something. On my last visit to the doctor, she said that we'd all die of prostate eventually if we lived long enough. In that regard, I eat my pumpkin seeds and I'm okay as far as I know. I work my 50 hives of bees, harvest honey, etc, and my age is revealed by my name on beesource, fwiw.
There is plenty to eat. Lots and lots.
It is just you have a heavy imprint of the food idea forced onto you by the current society (not to mention food business).

Every time I mention "drones for food" I get laughed at - so why should I even bother to continue.
Meanwhile, the insects were the most plentiful, accessible and nutritious component of the human food for millions of years.
Until it became no longer cool in certain societies (BUT not everywhere).

I just now made some morning burritos with home-grown turnip greens (of course, I still use grains/cheese - pretty much have to if these to be called "burritos").
But recall, the greens of turnips/cale/etc - until just recently were nothing other than food of slaves.
That's only one example of artificial ideas promoted by the society.

White bread for the rich; black sourdough for the poor - this kinds of non-sense.
On and on we go....

Obviously, on average people lived not as long (until recently) - due to poor hygiene, lack of emergency medicine and emergency medication, and pretty cyclical famines (the list goes on).
But did our biological longevity really changed?
Not really.
We have about the same built-in longevity as was 200K years ago.
Here is a good start for you:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/do-we-really-live-longer-than-our-ancestors
 

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There is a saying that we can eat anything that the primates eat. They eat a lot of bugs and other creepy crawlies, so I have a pretty good idea of what our ancestor's diet consisted. Oh well, I see a wax worm and still think bait, not snack.
 

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There is a saying that we can eat anything that the primates eat. They eat a lot of bugs and other creepy crawlies, so I have a pretty good idea of what our ancestor's diet consisted. Oh well, I see a wax worm and still think bait, not snack.
LOL
I agree of course about the "bait".

But exactly a good point JW - what is good for primates is good for us.
I am sure termites make excellent nutrition, for example.

Well, in all fairness, I would employ some technology and make "soy patties" out of the termites.
These will taste just like chicken or soy (your pick), no different in the conventional sense.
And yet all the nutrition.
And yet all it takes to raise them - some old wood scraps, cardboard and paper shreds.
Now we are talking some bang for the buck and trash utilization.

Just remembered - years ago, in Kansas; I picked up a cardboard box with stuff (was sitting in outside storage) - the stuff just dropped all over. The box was missing the bottom - termites ate it away.
Them underground termites in Kansas are pretty bad - eat houses like nothing.
I am sure glad I am up North now.
 

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I got into a discussion with a young woman/friend who was trying to make the case that everyone should go vegan. Oh, I know it wasn't nice, but I mentioned one study that stated that children raised on a strict vegan diet scored 10% less on IQ tests. So I posited to her that I wasn't worried about the trend because each succeeding generation would get dumber and dumber until they couldn't tell the difference between a carrot and a hot dog.

Seriously I have read a book on psychology and dietetics. There were a host of issues raised with strict vegan diets because some chemical organic compounds are only found in meat proteins and are essential for brain function and development.

My sister in law is a dietician and has moved to a vegetarian diet mostly because of a generational disposition for breast cancer of which she is a survivor. There is a lot of evidence that this reduces her risk.

I have wondered about the eating habits of hunter/gatherers. Seems like it wouldn't be much fun, but means you eat things by season, or capture. Kill a deer and that's what you eat for a week..berries are ripe, ditto. Bugs on the other hand have longer available seasons....................Bad weather and scarcity + competition makes one wonder if there were wars over berry patches. Maybe this is why our ancient ancestors might be considered old people at 40ish.

I think only in an overfed, obese, modern society do you see vegetarians and vegans. (enough to be a thing) If we are ever forced to go back to growing all of our own food, this will disappear.
 
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