I install my packages tomorrow. I'll be using foundationless frames but at one point someone convinced me to use a few Mann Lake plastic foundation frames so the bees have something to climb up. My foundationless frames Kelley F style with the wood triangle comb guide. I was also going to direct release the queen on these plastic foundation frames (but only use 2 per box). My hives are perfectly level. Should I just introduce the package with all only foundationless frames or leave a couple of plastic frames in there too?
I'm having 2nd thoughts on using two types of frames
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I really haven't tried foundationless, I've heard the benefits of using "drawn" comb to provide them a guide....maybe I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that foundation wouldn't provide the same benefit and would actually cause more problems. If your hives are truly level, most importantly front to back, I'd simply go all foundationless.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Yeah, that's what I've decided to do. I reread my notes and the person who said to use a foundation frame meant only when you add a second hive body, not for the original package install. I would delete this thread but I don't see how. I don't want to waste peoples time.
If you want to use both plastic and foundationless I would fill a box with PF100s (or PF120s if you have mediums) and let the bees build that and fill it with brood. When it's time to add a box, pull two of those frames up into the new box which is foundationless and put two foundationless frames in the box below (each between two drawn combs). If you want your kid to eat broccoli, don't put it on the same plate with cherry pie. Just give them the broccoli and when they have finished, then give them the cherry pie. The plastic is broccoli. The foundationless is the cherry pie. The bees will always prefer the foundationless and ignore the plastic.
>But if I don't really want any plastic in my hives, I can just go 100% foundationless from the start?
Yes, you can.
Yes, you can.
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i care more about hives being level side to side soo the comb wont lean to one side of the frame, causing a chain effect through the hive. become nothing but a mess. but, thats just me.IIf your hives are truly level, most importantly front to back, I'd simply go all foundationless.
Good Luck!
im totally foundationless. no guide,no starter strip. i see wayy too many benefits to it. when i bought my first hives from a retiring beek,i ended up with a couple hundred plastic frames. next weekend im going to see if i can cut the foundation out and use them as foundationless frames hahaha. i know its backwards from whats common but the bees seem to do better in my opinion with no foundation. i would make a point to try and pick up some drawn frames from someone u trust if u dont have any. alternate them with undrawn frames. package bees have one mission when hived....draw comb. and they do !
Tommy,
You're exactly right, that's exactly what I was thinking, unfortunately, it's not what I typed!
Good catch!Also, are you joking or series about cutting out the plastic foundation...I can appreciate your preference for foundationless, however, once a frame is drawn out, it seems like sort of a moot point...Not to be confused with a "Moots" point. LOL!
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well none of them are drawn out.just bagged up. i wouldnt use them if they were drawn either. i only have a few left in hives that i am culling out now. im a firm believer that the bees draw cell sizes dependant on what is necessary for that particular colony. larger cell or smaller cell...its up to them. i have some foundationless colonies with very noticable smaller bees in them. i let them decide.
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