[honeybees]

why couldn't there be something simpler for honeybees, such as, frames that were already drawn out so hb could go right to work, making honey, brood etc. they wouldn't have to waste so much time drawing out the wax. have frames already to go, well i did a little research and found the following sites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeHjX3uyUs

http://www.honeysupercell.com/home

has anyone else thought to do this and do you think there would be any drawbacks doing it this way? cheers and happy beekeeping

 

[sqkcrk]

I=====

 

[Countryboy]

The local bee supplier will sell you frames of honey super cell for $6 or $7 each.

Of course, they only come in deeps, so you have to cut them down to medium or shallow depth for honey production. If you have a single deep box with 10 frames, and 5 mediums for honey supers, running 9 frames in a box, that is 55 HSC frames...$330-$385.

Then you have to get the bees to accept the plastic HSC.

Be careful uncapping those HSC frames...you don't want to bust them up with a flail uncapper.

Or you can buy those 55 frames for about $40.

 

[Michael Bush]

I've got about 100 frames of HSC and about 1000 frames of permacomb. I love them both.

 

[Oldbee]

"...you have to cut them down to medium or shallow depth for honey production."
"Be careful uncapping those HSC frames...you don't want to bust them up with a flail uncapper."

Is HSC actually used for honey production? If it is, how is it uncapped?? I have never used it; just wondering.

Watched the video about an hour later, but still wondering?

 

[BeeCurious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgeHjX3uyUs

I liked the guy saying how heavy the empty deep of HSC was.

I wonder how much it weighs full of honey?

I would guess too much, or possibly more.

 

[honeybees]

technically they weigh the same, whether it is plastic foundation or wax comb, it is still occupying the same amount of space, given the same dimensions for each everything remains constant, weight and all. he wasn't carrying anything heavier but did you see the way he squished the little girl, wasn't being very careful

 

[BeeCurious]

technically they weigh the same

:scratch:



If they are made from the same plastic as my 4.9mm HSC they are much, much heavier.


And listen to the guy huffing and puffing when he begins to walk across his yard.

 

[honeybees]

let me direct you to the following info
http://www.honeysupercell.com/home/specifications

weight of a hsc is 1.78lbs./frame

you don't think a completely filled frame of just wax weighs about that same much?
i might find it hard to believe, in the long run who cares, the bees do their thing regardless, right?

 

[BeeCurious]

weight of a hsc is 1.78lbs./frame

you don't think a completely filled frame of just wax weighs about that same much?

No, and it doesn't.

Ask the huffing and puffing guy...

 

[NasalSponge]

I can tell you this much...my queens HATE laying in HSC.....if given an option they will totally ignore it. Just pulled a box of it off a hive half full of honey. She laid below it and she laid above it but it was for honey and pollen storage as far as that hive was concerned.inch:

 

[Michael Bush]

The queen hates it until she uses it and after it's been used she uses it fine. The Hackler Honey Punch is used to harvest from PermaComb or HSC. You can google it.

 

[honeyshack]

There is a saying with the cows.
"Grass in front, bull behind, the rest is up to the cow". (vaccinations and mineral included). If a cow can not perform to these standards she grows wheels and is "out of there". The market is just too tight to make a profit if we spend $ on every gadget and gizmo and grain to keep them in condition and breeding back.

I wish i new a saying which would fit bees that would compare to this. Bees have a job to do. Their job is to collect honey, build wax, keep their bottom board clean. Building honey super wax is part of their job description, not mine. Our job is to provide frames, extract and monitor. When we start doing their job, we will loose money.

If the bees can not meet the provincial/state average on their own then in essence they need to grow wheels. (basic management {winter/spring feed, basic treatments} one requeen a year and one bottom board cleaning in the spring included included). If they can not do it then there is something wrong either with our management or the bees, and something needs to change so we can make a profit.

Of course, as with cows, this is based on normal weather conditions, drough and flooding do impact this somewhat, in the way of feed. Other than that, they have to do the job they were intended to do.

 

[honeybees]

hey michael bush, please settle a discussion, which is heavier hsc frame or a wax frame or do they both weigh about the same. figured you would be the expert to ask since you have handled both. is it PLASTIC or WAX, thanks.

 

[clarkfarm]

Its painful watching the video guy smash those frames back in one by one. Maybe someone should show him how to remove one or two frames first and to replace frames slowly to give those bees a better chance to survive.

 

[honeyman46408]

which is heavier hsc frame or a wax frame

I am no Xpert on this but I can tell you that hsc or permacomb is HEAVIER than wax.

 

[BeeCurious]

I came up with a wonderful idea too....

hey michael bush, please settle a discussion, which is heavier hsc frame or a wax frame or do they both weigh about the same. figured you would be the expert to ask since you have handled both. is it PLASTIC or WAX, thanks.

Does this look like a fair comparison?

The empty wax frame weighs 10.7oz and the frame with empty HSC weighs 24.4oz.

 

[Oldbee]

"The Hackler Honey Punch is used to harvest from PermaComb or HSC. You can google it." M.Bush.

Thanks Michael, for awhile there I thought my question was going to be buried by subsequent posts.

I heard of that [Honey Punch] but didn't remember how, or what it was used for. I have been looking and asking at the hardware stores for something like that, but of course nobody knew of anything. I want to use it for opening up the cells when feeding back frames of honey if need be. The scratcher works OK. but appears to damage the cell surfaces. A knife would work, but not out by the hives to well.

I'm not sure if I would use HSC for large amounts honey harvesting though. It seems that there would still be tiny particles of plastic that might get into the honey. Also, the wax cells might impart a more natural flavour to the honey. Maybe that's not such a good thing either if the frames are too old. :scratch:

Hackler Honey Punch > http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205344&highlight=hackler

 

[sylus p]

Its painful watching the video guy smash those frames back in one by one. Maybe someone should show him how to remove one or two frames first and to replace frames slowly to give those bees a better chance to survive.

I have to agree. Take out a frame or two, work in the empty space. :doh:

BTW the bees would have done the same thing with a super of empty drawn WAX comb, just as fast. Are we really so impatient??

Another thing... a wood and wax frame that has outlived its usefullness can be burned in good conscience. Have fun burning your supercell.

Oh. Plastic frames flex when you lever them with your hive tool, which is a real pain in the rear end.

So yeah, that was painful to watch.

 

[Michael Bush]

>hey michael bush, please settle a discussion, which is heavier hsc frame or a wax frame or do they both weigh about the same. figured you would be the expert to ask since you have handled both. is it PLASTIC or WAX, thanks.

Of course someone weight them now and that sounds about right. The HSC and PermaComb are heavy. They are almost identical except for three things. The PermaComb is only in mediums. The PermaComb has no spacers. The PermaComb does not honor beespace between the boxes. All of this was by design, but they are the differences.

The plastic is a very tough polyethlene (I'm guessing by it's texture, I don't know the exact plastic formula used). It's not at all brittle and I would have no expectation of any plastic ending up in the honey.

At first they will actually used the PermaComb or HSC more slowly so I'd say it slows them down at first. But once it's used they accept it as drawn comb and even the wax moths can't touch it, hence the name "PermaComb". And then it doesn't slow them down at all. Having permanant drawn comb is a definite advantage in bekeeping.