[GregV]

OK, looks like I never created a unified topic on making the hybrid Layens hives.
Here goes then - will put together few notes and pictures on what I know and what I have done.
Because I had many unused Lang boxes, I repurposed them to make hybrid Layens.

The idea came from this blueprint, but I made my versions as light and simple as possible - for mobility.

I got 5 of these rigs in my inventory and they work fine - smaller and lighter versions of the same.
These are made for mobility when you have no help and can move then around alone.
The core unit is made of three medium 10-frame Lang boxes - glued together into a uni-body.

The modified frames will go crosswise - about 12-13 frames.
The core box made from the Lang boxes will be too wide as-is - the frame rests are made by attaching 1/2" planks from inside. Because there is excessive empty space below the frame rests, I use it to create "insulating sandwich" and the reinforcement "ribs" to hold the uni-body together.

You can super the rig vertically with regular Lang boxes/frames.
Unless is filled with frames for honey flow, I always have an empty super above the core - it just makes sense to have it as the utility space - feeding/drying frames/insulation/storage/bee spill-over space.

 

[GregV]

Few pics:

 

[bjorn]

I see you are in Dane County, just north of me. How have these overwintered? Have you tried an insulated version of one yet like the insulated layens design?

 

[GregV]

I see you are in Dane County, just north of me. How have these overwintered? Have you tried an insulated version of one yet like the insulated layens design?

Overwinter fine.
If anything that kills my bees - this is me experimenting with the TF (not the winter and not the hives).

The upper utility box is large enough for any amount of top insulation of any kind (very convenient for top feeding too).
The side insulation is easily achieved with the dummy boards.
Front/back insulation is in place already - I have those sandwiches designed-in as-is.
Of course, external foam slabs/snow are always usable as needed.

Typical wintering setup is as pictured.

 

[bjorn]

Overwinter fine.
If anything that kills my bees - this is me experimenting with the TF (not the winter and not the hives).

The upper utility box is large enough for any amount of top insulation of any kind (very convenient for top feeding too).
The side insulation is easily achieved with the dummy boards.
Front/back insulation is in place already - I have those sandwiches designed-in as-is.
Of course, external foam slabs/snow are always usable as needed.

Typical wintering setup is as pictured.

What strain of bees are you typically running in them? Or is that a moving target as well?

 

[GregV]

What strain of bees are you typically running in them? Or is that a moving target as well?

Whatever I catch - goes in.
All bees around here are mutts, anyway.

 

[bjorn]

Gotcha, so you're not buying any... just catching swarms.

 

[GregV]

Gotcha, so you're not buying any... just catching swarms.

Correct.

 

[madhu]

GregV I'm a huge fan of your work, you're really on it here with this mode you have going on. I'm going to watch this thread. Right now Im just totally inspired.

My mind is really wandering towards utilizing all the Lang gear so widely available versus having to make every bit on my own.

I am considering the possibility of using these "lang deep stacks" and then insulate and dress them up on the outside with something nice like cedar and wool (or cheaper would be scorched pine). Technically one could even make some nice removable /modular insulated panels (you mentioned using foam or snow so thats quick cheap and easy). I'm into aesthetics as I'm sure many are and I'd love to make some sweet cedar insulator panels that you can zip together around the hive in the fall and open it up in spring. thoughts?

Also, GregV whats your parameters on bee space for this hive style? sides, top, between frames? I know im a speculator but I've been mulling over the 9mm used by Perone, and as Dave Cushman speaks about using 9mm and 6mm but I don't know exactly when and where. I worked on a imperial conversion and I think our best would be 11/32" and I'd like to hear your experienced advice, and or others?

 

[GregV]

thoughts?

Also, GregV whats your parameters on bee space for this hive style? sides, top, between frames? I know im a speculator but I've been mulling over the 9mm used by Perone, and as Dave Cushman speaks about using 9mm and 6mm but I don't know exactly when and where. I worked on a imperial conversion and I think our best would be 11/32" and I'd like to hear your experienced advice, and or others?

I don't really bend backwards to get all the millimeters inline - does not matter that much with horizontal hives.
One of the great features of the single level hives - you can afford to be sloppy.

~0.5" bees space is close enough and it works everywhere and it is an easy setting for all the tools and cuts.

Again - the entire hive internally is build around this double-frame dimension.
Measure it and figure things out for yourself.

One note - some of my top bars are TOO thick (made from the time when I did not super the long hives yet). So I need to replace some of them to my "standard" - 0.5" thick.
Really, my "standard" everywhere I can get away with it - 0.5"
It works and if you stick to it, everything around things just fits.
The frames are mostly 1.25" wide (or Standard Lang width where reused).

 

[bjorn]

I attached the frames but am wondering if I should cut the ears off or not. If shimmed with wood to fill the gap created between the ears and then adding a top bar for hanging, would that create too big of a gap for them to cross up to supers if I put them on? I'm hesitant to cut them in the event I decided to revert back.

 

[bjorn]

I didn't see your last post prior to sending mine. I see you have ears on one, with a rod thru them. Does the gap created between the ears create any problems? I assume they would build some sort of bridge comb there up to the bottom of the supers. Has that been your experience?

 

[Gray Goose]

View attachment 62134
I attached the frames but am wondering if I should cut the ears off or not. If shimmed with wood to fill the gap created between the ears and then adding a top bar for hanging, would that create too big of a gap for them to cross up to supers if I put them on? I'm hesitant to cut them in the event I decided to revert back.

leave the ears, and the space, the space will be used for cross travel in winter, some of it built in, no worries, and backward comparable. A screw into each end bar and a wire in the center ,thru each corner of the 2 frames, and into a hole drilled into the top bar, could then do touching top bars, Layens style.

looks good

GG

 

[GregV]

I didn't see your last post prior to sending mine. I see you have ears on one, with a rod thru them. Does the gap created between the ears create any problems? I assume they would build some sort of bridge comb there up to the bottom of the supers. Has that been your experience?

Just use a soft cover (burlap, etc) if only doing a single level to reduce crazy combs over the "eared" frames.

However, keep in mind that IF you want to super up vertically, you then prefer proper top bars - need to cut the ears off. This is so you can maintain proper spacing.
But me too - I hate destroying perfectly fine wooden frames.
I only cut up the plastic frames anymore, but keep the wooden Langs as-is - not cutting.

I have not expanded vertically over the "eared" frames yet.
These I only use when no other options left.
Actually, supering over the "eared" frames has only one nuance - you can not insert a regular frame just directly over the row of ears (they go at 90 degrees with respect to each other).
Then don't fight the ears, just leave that space empty (OR a top bar only OR a smaller frame).

 

[bjorn]

However, keep in mind that IF you want to super up vertically, you then prefer proper top bars - need to cut the ears off. This is so you can maintain proper spacing.

Have you tried this in a longer format... aka splicing to of your "rigs" together to create a 20 frame, or in this case, 24 frame, long rig? It seems that would be closer to the Layens dimensions. It seems with only 12 frames you would HAVE to super or risk overpopulating the box resulting in a swarm.

 

[bjorn]

Also, what is your bottom board? I don't see a traditional bottom board, nor would you seem to need one with multiple side entrances. Is it just a flat bottom? Ever tried the peat moss filled bottom board? I'm just fishing for ideas and feedback on those ideas.

 

[GregV]

Have you tried this in a longer format... aka splicing to of your "rigs" together to create a 20 frame, or in this case, 24 frame, long rig? It seems that would be closer to the Layens dimensions. It seems with only 12 frames you would HAVE to super or risk overpopulating the box resulting in a swarm.

Why, sure.
In fact, I started with long hives before I made the hybrids.
Here is a 20-frame rig.

But why worry of the over-population?
You simply grow the hybrid up if needed.

 

[bjorn]

So, did you move away from them for any particular reason? Too hard to transport, not as simple to work as advertised, filled up too fast? I hope you don't mind the 20 questions routine.

 

[GregV]

Also, what is your bottom board? I don't see a traditional bottom board, nor would you seem to need one with multiple side entrances. Is it just a flat bottom? Ever tried the peat moss filled bottom board? I'm just fishing for ideas and feedback on those ideas.

Just a flat attached bottom with ventilation slits.
None of the humidity-management gymnastics are needed (peat moss, etc).
If anything, there is too much ventilation with sufficient under-frame space (not the other way around).

 

[GregV]

So, did you move away from them for any particular reason? Too hard to transport, not as simple to work as advertised, filled up too fast? I hope you don't mind the 20 questions routine.

Why, I did not move away from the long hives.
I actively use them every season (in fact, I fill them up first - they are the most ergonomic hives I have; they are the easiest to work).
I simply don't move them around anymore - takes two people (unless you want to hurt yourself; I used to move empty long rigs alone when empty, but the shoulders are hurting lately).
So, now days my four long hives are stationed permanently.