Big 610 - have you tried using just plain frames with NO foundation and break up the brood nest with them and elevate the extra drawn comb into the second deep? It works for me all the time. I go from a 8 frame to 16 and it only takes them a little while to expand so that they can repair the brood nest. It keeps the young bees busy and keeps them going. It may take a little light feeding to get them to draw the frames out if you aren't on a flow. When I say light i'm talking quart or less every other day. Just enough to keep them busy but not enough to make them backfill the nest.
Hope for new comb an illusion?
Ok, so as Ive seen last year, after the flow, comb building basically is over. It really makes one appreciate the value of drawn comb. Here is my dilemma. So my splits are busting at the seams.......in one deep. Queens are laying a solid pattern across 7-8 frames. Just a small honey band at top and the outside frames of honey. Perfect scenario to add a box. More room right? They are not thinking of drawing another box. What are my options? I know they will throttle back brood,make room for winter stores, but we usually have a heavy goldenrod flow in the fall and white clover throughout the summer. Should I just leave a medium on and see if they decide to draw it? Im certain they know what they need more than I do. If they dont do anything I guess I will be wintering a bunch of singles. Guess I will make a 3 inch shim and give em insurance feed. What would yall recommend? Thanks. G :scratch:
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Actually yes, I am in the process of going all foundation-less. I was also trying to go to all mediums, so I didnt want to stack another deep. Wonder if I could use the same method with medium frame in between 2 brood combs in a deep box? Hmmm, then Im left with a frame of deep brood........the plot thickens......Might have to give it a try and shift some frames of brood to Hives that could handle them......:scratch: thanks DocBig 610 - have you tried using just plain frames with NO foundation and break up the brood nest with them and elevate the extra drawn comb into the second deep? It works for me all the time. I go from a 8 frame to 16 and it only takes them a little while to expand so that they can repair the brood nest. It keeps the young bees busy and keeps them going. It may take a little light feeding to get them to draw the frames out if you aren't on a flow. When I say light i'm talking quart or less every other day. Just enough to keep them busy but not enough to make them backfill the nest.
Feed. Throw a couple brood frames in the top to entice and feed. Not ideal but we don't have long flows in the south.
Thanks Tenn Bees. G
Ok, here's a thought.. Use two deeps, however use medium frames for your new frames. The bees will draw out those medium frames just the same, but you will want to keep a close eye on them as they WILL continue to draw them from the bottom bar right on down to the bottom of the deep frames. Once your mediums in the lower section get drawn, move them up and replace with more mediums that need drawn out. It's a process for sure, but once they all are drawn, or at least enough to get the bees into the upper medium till you can break it up the same way. So i'd start with say two deeps, elevate 3 to 4 fully drawn deeps up, replace with mediums below. Then break up those in the upper the same way with one or two frames medium. Then once the lowers are drawn, remove the deep, pull the medium frames from lower, replace the deep originals, and pop a medium box on top putting all med frames into it. You can then break up those with what's needing to be drawn out from there..
I hope that all makes sense.. lol.. In my head it does but that don't mean it will in anyone elses.. lol
I hope that all makes sense.. lol.. In my head it does but that don't mean it will in anyone elses.. lol
:lpf: Thats for the last line Doc.
No it makes sense. I got the wheels rolling now, Cool this morning, soon as it warms up a little, Im heading out and try and see what I can do to spur the girls. Thanks for the suggestions all. G
No it makes sense. I got the wheels rolling now, Cool this morning, soon as it warms up a little, Im heading out and try and see what I can do to spur the girls. Thanks for the suggestions all. G
I understand your position, but what is your concern? You can successfully overwinter singles here in the mid south - especially with mt camp feeding. Overwintered singles are big enough to expand and do whatever you want next spring - including draw comb, and make honey. Swarming is a spring issue no matter what.
In my opinion it stresses bees to try to force them to draw comb at this time by inserting frames - sometimes they just won't - or can't do it and they have to deal with a long lasting split in the nest. Feed if they need supplemental nutrition, but that will be some expensive comb you get by feeding sugar during high summer - if you even get much. Work with nature instead of fighting it, and you will have an easier time of it.
In my opinion it stresses bees to try to force them to draw comb at this time by inserting frames - sometimes they just won't - or can't do it and they have to deal with a long lasting split in the nest. Feed if they need supplemental nutrition, but that will be some expensive comb you get by feeding sugar during high summer - if you even get much. Work with nature instead of fighting it, and you will have an easier time of it.
BG10
I winter in single deeps here with no problem but when their really busting I might set a medium on just to give them a little room.
Light feed might get some drawn but it's scetchy for me.
What I do is have all my comb drawn in the spring. Partially for swarm prevention and partially for comb. I'm mostly foundationless so on a pretty regular basis I drop frames in the brood nest. As you've recently discovered these will be drawn very nice and very quick.
I'll set another box on to hold the frames I move up mostly trying to move only capped brood or honey frames too far from the broodnest.
Here at home I have two long hives that are great places to store a few pollen/ honey frames until I start making nucs in mid/late summer.
I require every established hive to draw me 10 deep frames that they don't need. I'll work these into the top box or boxes where they will fill them with honey. I'll extract them and use them to help my nucs to a full size box or wherever they may be needed.
While I have mostly deeps I have a few mediums. Mixing and matching is a real pain.
I winter in single deeps here with no problem but when their really busting I might set a medium on just to give them a little room.
Light feed might get some drawn but it's scetchy for me.
What I do is have all my comb drawn in the spring. Partially for swarm prevention and partially for comb. I'm mostly foundationless so on a pretty regular basis I drop frames in the brood nest. As you've recently discovered these will be drawn very nice and very quick.
I'll set another box on to hold the frames I move up mostly trying to move only capped brood or honey frames too far from the broodnest.
Here at home I have two long hives that are great places to store a few pollen/ honey frames until I start making nucs in mid/late summer.
I require every established hive to draw me 10 deep frames that they don't need. I'll work these into the top box or boxes where they will fill them with honey. I'll extract them and use them to help my nucs to a full size box or wherever they may be needed.
While I have mostly deeps I have a few mediums. Mixing and matching is a real pain.
Thanks for the replies, Yes, i feel better about single overwintering now. Like I said, i was successful last year, and spring comb drawing was fast and furious. I will have to build up my supply in the spring I suppose, I guess its just a bummer when the wax dries up, but, its about their needs not my wants. thanks again all. G
Wolfer, I appreciate the details you've shared. Just wanting to understand more (hope no one feels I'm hijacking the thread; think of it as elaborating, instead) : you must put a new frame or two in your hives weekly, if they draw 10 /hive each spring. So you just put an empty box up top with the few frames you pull, in the process filling the box up? Do you keep pulling out the newly drawn and drop in empty frames several times in succession? Does that keep a hive population in check, since they're giving up space for the queen to lay?
Karen
Let's say I start with a single deep. As soon as I start seeing white wax I know nectar is coming in. Assuming I have a bottom box full of bees and several frames of capped brood I know they can fill this box with bees in a few days.
I'll set on another box and move two frames up dropping two empty frames in the lower broodnest. When they start drawing the frames next to the two I moved up the two I put in the bottom are usually nearly drawn.
Two or three days depending on nectar coming in.
Then I move two more from the bottom box and drop undrawn frames between them in the top box. At this time the bottom will have 8 drawn frames and the top 4 or more. At the peak of drawing season I can't manipulate them fast enough. They nearly always pass me. I get good straight comb when I have it drawn between two BROOD frames but they will usually get ahead and draw some honey cell. This will be toward the outside of the top box. It will be mostly drone with every other sized cell mixed in.
When these honey frames are placed in a nuc later the queen won't lay in some of them hence I like my comb drawn in the broodnest.
With nectar coming in 10 deep frames take about a week. If their really drawing strong I thro on another deep and move 4 frames up. Two from each box. Repeat in three days or so. Or I may start Supering.
Most single deeps will build 20 deep frames but ten of those stay on the hive and ten I will take to use in nucs later in the season.
My double deep hives I tend to just super unless I think their a swarm risk. Then I use a deep and try to move capped brood and heavy honey frames up to give the bees something to occupy their time.
Hope this make sense.
I tend to not do anything with a plan. I just go in and wing it from there.
Let's say I start with a single deep. As soon as I start seeing white wax I know nectar is coming in. Assuming I have a bottom box full of bees and several frames of capped brood I know they can fill this box with bees in a few days.
I'll set on another box and move two frames up dropping two empty frames in the lower broodnest. When they start drawing the frames next to the two I moved up the two I put in the bottom are usually nearly drawn.
Two or three days depending on nectar coming in.
Then I move two more from the bottom box and drop undrawn frames between them in the top box. At this time the bottom will have 8 drawn frames and the top 4 or more. At the peak of drawing season I can't manipulate them fast enough. They nearly always pass me. I get good straight comb when I have it drawn between two BROOD frames but they will usually get ahead and draw some honey cell. This will be toward the outside of the top box. It will be mostly drone with every other sized cell mixed in.
When these honey frames are placed in a nuc later the queen won't lay in some of them hence I like my comb drawn in the broodnest.
With nectar coming in 10 deep frames take about a week. If their really drawing strong I thro on another deep and move 4 frames up. Two from each box. Repeat in three days or so. Or I may start Supering.
Most single deeps will build 20 deep frames but ten of those stay on the hive and ten I will take to use in nucs later in the season.
My double deep hives I tend to just super unless I think their a swarm risk. Then I use a deep and try to move capped brood and heavy honey frames up to give the bees something to occupy their time.
Hope this make sense.
I tend to not do anything with a plan. I just go in and wing it from there.
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