People actually feed HFCS to bees as a strategy!?
This stuff wrecks havoc in humans and our digestive systems is much more complex than bees...
This stuff wrecks havoc in humans and our digestive systems is much more complex than bees...
"...honey vs. sucrose or high fructose corn syrup"
a study recently published in nature:
http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140717/srep05726/full/srep05726.html
http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140717/srep05726/full/srep05726.html
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You must be new here.People actually feed HFCS to bees as a strategy!?
To summarize the strategy, 100% natural honey may wholesale for ~$3 /lb (i retail only mine for 7 so im guessing at wholesale price) so a ton fetches ~$6000. HFCS is $500-700 per ton. So if your in the honey business, then yes you take all the honey and feed back HFCS to ensure the bees have enough stores for winter.
Do you have a source to cite as to how HFCS "wrecks havoc" with us (residual pesticides aside)? Perhaps a source that indicates that the more complex the digestive system the more prone to "havoc" it is?This stuff wrecks havoc in humans and our digestive systems is much more complex than bees...
:shhhh
r you could fill an old steel fuel tank with straw and keep adding corn syrup. this is usually stashed in the bushes about 200 feet from the hives to reduce robing and to keep it out of site. that way you can fill your honey supers quicker, why wait for fall. schimism has the numbers about right except on a large scale you might be able to do it cheaper yet. wholesale on the honey is more like 2.35/2.75. you know we have to compete with china.
r you could fill an old steel fuel tank with straw and keep adding corn syrup. this is usually stashed in the bushes about 200 feet from the hives to reduce robing and to keep it out of site. that way you can fill your honey supers quicker, why wait for fall. schimism has the numbers about right except on a large scale you might be able to do it cheaper yet. wholesale on the honey is more like 2.35/2.75. you know we have to compete with china.http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/integrative_medicine_digestive_center/news_events/corn_syrup.html
Quote from the article: "The HFCS bees do not turn on their immune genes (that is they have less ability to fight off infection) and do not turn on the enzymes needed to break down pesticides (and are more likely to be harmed or killed by pesticides that normally would have no or limited effect)"
Quote from the article: "The HFCS bees do not turn on their immune genes (that is they have less ability to fight off infection) and do not turn on the enzymes needed to break down pesticides (and are more likely to be harmed or killed by pesticides that normally would have no or limited effect)"
it's almost intuitive that a honey diet would be more healthy than a sugar or corn syrup diet, but this is the first science that i have seen that illustrates a possible mechanism.
in particular, the authors state:
"honey upregulates genes associated with processes ... which are related ... to immune responses to infection"
this suggests that honey is important for the bees' natural immunity to pathogens, including the viruses that are vectored by mites.
a common denominator among successful treatment free operations is avoiding artificial feeds, and the results of this study suggest that may be an important part of the equation.
on the other hand the bee informed survey finds higher losses among beekeepers who 'feed' honey.
http://beeinformed.org/2014/06/feeding-honeybees-honey-may-increase-mortality/
i think the comments posted to that page do a good job at pointing out the problem with reading too much into that statistic. for example it could be that it was the lost colonies that yielded the extra honey frames fed back to surviving hives.
i get the profitability side of it, and i don't begrudge anyone for feeding their bees or doing anything else with them as they see fit, but fewer losses would potentially add back to the plus side of the balance sheet.
for those utilizing an ipm approach, it looks like a honey diet might be something to consider incorporating.
in particular, the authors state:
"honey upregulates genes associated with processes ... which are related ... to immune responses to infection"
this suggests that honey is important for the bees' natural immunity to pathogens, including the viruses that are vectored by mites.
a common denominator among successful treatment free operations is avoiding artificial feeds, and the results of this study suggest that may be an important part of the equation.
on the other hand the bee informed survey finds higher losses among beekeepers who 'feed' honey.
http://beeinformed.org/2014/06/feeding-honeybees-honey-may-increase-mortality/
i think the comments posted to that page do a good job at pointing out the problem with reading too much into that statistic. for example it could be that it was the lost colonies that yielded the extra honey frames fed back to surviving hives.
i get the profitability side of it, and i don't begrudge anyone for feeding their bees or doing anything else with them as they see fit, but fewer losses would potentially add back to the plus side of the balance sheet.
for those utilizing an ipm approach, it looks like a honey diet might be something to consider incorporating.
I have been around commercial beekeepers my whole life and have never heard any suspicion as what you spread out like it is a common practice. Sad that you have been taught to hate so freely. I doubt you even know why your stated methodology is ludicrous in its face.
:shhhh
I understand the strategy fine. It is Capitalistic to use the cheapest solution to maximize profits. That doesn't make it the best or healthiest one. Thank Government sponsored Corn Subsidies for that.Do you have a source to cite as to how HFCS "wrecks havoc" with us (residual pesticides aside)? Perhaps a source that indicates that the more complex the digestive system the more prone to "havoc" it is?
> http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/05/13/5-reasons-high-fructose-corn-syrup-will-kill-you/#close
Article listing the various problems with it.
Key notes include:
-Regular cane sugar (sucrose) is made of two-sugar molecules bound tightly together– glucose and fructose in equal amounts.The enzymes in your digestive tract must break down the sucrose into glucose and fructose, which are then absorbed into the body. HFCS also consists of glucose and fructose, not in a 50-50 ratio, but a 55-45 fructose to glucose ratio in an unbound form. Since there is there is no chemical bond between them, no digestion is required so they are more rapidly absorbed into your blood stream. Fructose goes right to the liver and triggers lipogenesis.
-45% of HFCS samples contained Mercury, attempt to get more samples for further testing were denied. (I wonder why...)
The sources they used.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051594
-The most commonly used types of HFCS (HFCS-42 and HFCS-55) are similar in composition to sucrose (table sugar), consisting of roughly equal amounts of fructose and glucose. The primary difference is that these monosaccharides exist free in solution in HFCS, but in disaccharide form in sucrose. (aka the body processes HFCS differently from regular sugar)
> http://www.ehjournal.net/content/8/1/2
As far as the second part of your question. It is just a general way of thinking. The bigger the system, the more it can absorb before it gets to critical levels. I would say that the human digestive system is much bigger than a bees and thus, much more capable of absorbing harmful chemicals until it reaches its breaking point.
If you bothered to read the article presented by the OP you would have saw this study being referenced.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20491475?dopt=Abstract&holding=npg
-Fructosyl-fructoses were mainly detected in honeys from bees fed with HFCS, but not from those honeys coming from free-flying bees or bees fed with SS(Sucrose Syrup).
Which relates to the first point that the 2 items are different chemically and are processed differently in the body. Aka the whole point of the topic and the whole point of the post that was made.
HFCS honey is very different than natural made honey and Sugar syrup.
China is putting out trash that can't even be called honey. It is banned from being imported to the EU. (much like GMO crops and seeds are)you know we have to compete with china.
So I really don't see how viewing them as competition would be a good business model.
If it weren't for Capitalists many of the people who think Capitalism is a dirty word would be starving to death in a cave in the dark. Do me a favor and don't buy your bees or sandwiches from someone doing that sale for a profit.
What are you even talking about here.If it weren't for Capitalists many of the people who think Capitalism is a dirty word would be starving to death in a cave in the dark. Do me a favor and don't buy your bees or sandwiches from someone doing that sale for a profit.
And people complain about losing half their colonies every year......You must be new here.
To summarize the strategy, 100% natural honey may wholesale for ~$3 /lb (i retail only mine for 7 so im guessing at wholesale price) so a ton fetches ~$6000. HFCS is $500-700 per ton. So if your in the honey business, then yes you take all the honey and feed back HFCS to ensure the bees have enough stores for winter.
Do you have a source to cite as to how HFCS "wrecks havoc" with us (residual pesticides aside)? Perhaps a source that indicates that the more complex the digestive system the more prone to "havoc" it is?
unfortunately some [or a few] commercial type operators feed more than people realize. I do not hate anyone but I am aware of my surroundings. a lot of times these type operations do not do the best in the long run.
Getting back to the original paper... I left much more honey on last winter than ever before and I had the worst survival ever. I'm not sure that honey is the best for overwintering. I am more inclined to believe that fondant or divert sugar are best. Just my IMO.
interesting cam, were you able to determine the cause(s) for your losses? was there much honey left on the survivors by the time reliable field forage (finally) became available this year?Getting back to the original paper... I left much more honey on last winter than ever before and I had the worst survival ever. I'm not sure that honey is the best for overwintering. I am more inclined to believe that fondant or divert sugar are best. Just my IMO.
China is really no competition. The government has a tarrif on the importation of Chinese honey that equals the wholesale price. That is not to say we do not get Chinese honey through Argentina, and Brazil, but the extra shipping and repacking eats away at their bottom line.
The practices of commercial beekeepers are based on the bottom line, although all the pompous purest like to point a finger of shame upon them. The reality of it is a significant portion of the expense of research and field studies to help honey bees is offset by the commercial beekeepers, either directly or by government agencies who are concerned about the financial impact upon the nation should bees fail. Basically the hobbyist would be short lived if not for commercial beekeepers.
The practices of commercial beekeepers are based on the bottom line, although all the pompous purest like to point a finger of shame upon them. The reality of it is a significant portion of the expense of research and field studies to help honey bees is offset by the commercial beekeepers, either directly or by government agencies who are concerned about the financial impact upon the nation should bees fail. Basically the hobbyist would be short lived if not for commercial beekeepers.
Squarepeg - if I may be so bold, Good clean honey is the best to overwinter on, but even HFCS beats infected honey for overwintering. Some believe that the lower roughage of the pure sugars(sucrose and HFCS) helps reduce the need to poop during long northern winters.
Crazy Roland
Crazy Roland
>Basically the hobbyist would be short lived if not for commercial beekeepers.
I disagree. Honey would just return to being a luxury item like it was before the industrialization of it via Langstroth and others.
As for the cost of research being covered by the commercial keepers or the government. The research is semi required when humans are raising organisms outside of their native habitat. Many unknowns are introduced compared to the knowledge learned from studying them in their native habitat. They have the most to gain from the knowledge the studies provide and the most to lose should they lose their bees. Why shouldn't they be expected to cover the costs of it?
I disagree. Honey would just return to being a luxury item like it was before the industrialization of it via Langstroth and others.
As for the cost of research being covered by the commercial keepers or the government. The research is semi required when humans are raising organisms outside of their native habitat. Many unknowns are introduced compared to the knowledge learned from studying them in their native habitat. They have the most to gain from the knowledge the studies provide and the most to lose should they lose their bees. Why shouldn't they be expected to cover the costs of it?
Can you show me any of that on grocery store shelves?HFCS honey is very different than natural made honey and Sugar syrup.
There was a lot of honey on every hive. I extracted much of it and am still using it in my splits. I have some theories and my losses were varied. However, my mite counts were low going into the winter and very little nosema. Some I attribute to small clusters but others were very large clusters. Some of my smallest clusters survived the winter and have done well this year. All my survivors are big hives right now with great honey production. My best survivors were Pol-Line and carni lines.interesting cam, were you able to determine the cause(s) for your losses? was there much honey left on the survivors by the time reliable field forage (finally) became available this year?
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