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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
last month I had killed a queen by mistake. I installed a new mated marked queen on july 26th and then on the 30th I inspected the hive to see if the queen had been released from the cage. She was in the cage but the candy was all gone as I lifted the cage she ran into the hive, later found her on a frame. so thought all was good. today I inspected the hive and did find her or any eggs whatsoever. hive seemed a little low on numbers but expected that after a week of being without a queen. should I have been able to find eggs and is there a possibility she obsconded with some of the bees as I did not find an active hive in a tree less than 1/8th of a mile away? Also on the day I removed the cage I did go in and remove any queen cells that I had found. and the hive does not seem to be aggressive and they capped off a supper with honey. Is there a normal delay for the queen to start laying if she made it and if so how long? thanks
 

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I suspect that they did not like her and killed her. We used to have this happen to us too. Now we leave the candy end corked for three days. Then we go in and search all of the frames for queen cells. After removing them we uncork the candy end and get out of the hive for one full week. After a week we go back and make sure the queen is out. We check frames just until we find eggs or young brood and then get out of the hive for another week. We have had 100% acceptance since starting this. I suspect that queens are lost due to early inspections upsetting the bees.
Dave
 

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Dave's conclusions are no doubt correct, do you have another hive that you can pull a frame of young larvae from and insert it into the troubled hive? If they are indeed queenless the bees should build queen cells and requeen themselves or you need to order another queen pronto.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I do have another hive that is very full of bees and larve and eggs. and maybe a litlle crowded. I just adde a second supper to give them more room. should I swap out frames and hope there is time to make a new queen and breed her and in turn it may free up space in the other hive or should I order a new matted queen and try again?
 

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Could have been a virgin already in the hive by the time she was released as well, Seems, you should start seeing eggs soon if that was the case. Was there any poor weather that could have delayed mating flights? Just a guess of course. G
 

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I would give her a couple more days and inspect again. If the queen you introduced is a young mated queen, she could still go out for mating flights, and could have been gone during your inspection and may return. However your comment about being thin on bee count could also indicate that she absconded. Did you catch the swarm in the tree that you mentioned?

Your bee count should not drastically drop in only a few days. It takes longer for attrition. So if you noticed a drastic drop in count, it is likely that she absconded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I did not catch the bees . I found a bounch in an old bee hive I found last year that did not make it threw winter in a cotton wood tree. the numbers are a little thinner than the hive next to it which use to have less numbers before the mess started. and there where only two frames left out of two deeps that had capped brood in two deeps. the bottom deep seemed to have glazed looking pollen in the center of the frames and honey in the corners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
And yes there was rain the first few days after she was released so if she was a virgin thay could explain the delay but the place I purchased her stated they new they are mated queens as they wait to ship them after they see the queens laying. but could also be a sales pitch. is it common for a introduced quenn to leave? or more likely they killed her. the hive would have been queenles for a total of 7 days which i would have guessed to be about 10,000 bees short if a queen lays about 1500 a day
 

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"is it common for a introduced quenn to leave? or more likely they killed her."
I believe that it is far more likely that they balled her than that she left. Regardless, I would immediately add a frame of very young, uncapped brood from the other hive. You'll have more information within a couple of days based on whether they make emergency queen cells. Open brood may also forestall having laying workers. (This situation is a good reminder that having a small nuc with a mated queen is handy.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So would the emergancy queen trick with a frame of brood be better than ordering a new queen? just concerned with the time frame to raise a queen now
 

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So would the emergancy queen trick with a frame of brood be better than ordering a new queen? just concerned with the time frame to raise a queen now
I would add the frame of young brood regardless of whether I planned to order a queen. Whatever you do right now has risks. If you order a new queen, you have the cost of the queen and shipping, plus the risk that she will not be accepted. If you don't, you lose a few days and you run the risk of poor mating or failure to return from a mating flight with little chance of recovery. You may actually already have a queen that will begin showing brood any day now, risking that you are wasting the cost of a new queen and the trouble of moving brood. There is no guarantee of success anywhere. Buying a mated queen (again) has the most cost and best likely outcome. Even if I planned on buying a queen, in your situation I would immediately put a frame of young, open brood in the hive to gain information and suppress laying workers till the new queen gets here.
 

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I would add the frame of young brood regardless of whether I planned to order a queen. Whatever you do right now has risks. If you order a new queen, you have the cost of the queen and shipping, plus the risk that she will not be accepted. If you don't, you lose a few days and you run the risk of poor mating or failure to return from a mating flight with little chance of recovery. You may actually already have a queen that will begin showing brood any day now, risking that you are wasting the cost of a new queen and the trouble of moving brood. There is no guarantee of success anywhere. Buying a mated queen (again) has the most cost and best likely outcome. Even if I planned on buying a queen, in your situation I would immediately put a frame of young, open brood in the hive to gain information and suppress laying workers till the new queen gets here.
Best advice yet. IMO. :thumbsup: G
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes sounds very good . Will do that tonight when I get home is weather holds out rained this am but may have a window later on of no rain. How long will it take them to start making queen cells on the frame?
 

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Yes sounds very good . Will do that tonight when I get home is weather holds out rained this am but may have a window later on of no rain. How long will it take them to start making queen cells on the frame?
If you put a frame with eggs to brood and they are queenless, they should start building a cell immediately. I dont know how long to tell you to wait to find out. Here is a link to the numbers for beekeeping math. I will say with all of my open mated queens this spring (first time) it Seemed alot longer until they were laying, I didnt take notes so it probably wasnt. Good Luck.G

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm
 

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I'm horrible at seeing eggs, but 23 days after re-queening, I saw capped brood where there was none before. I checked 13 days after and saw nothing!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
LOL my eyes arnt what they where but have been able to see them so when I didnt I even braught out a big magnifying glass
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
many thanks to everyone. moved a frame in today and peeked at a few frames that where in the upper brood chamber and still no eggs . will look in a few days to see whats going on
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bad news frame had queen cells all over it. and eggs all over they hive now. multiple eggs in cells eggs against the walls in the pollen. yep laying workes. Boy.
 

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They don't make qc if they have laying workers. They think they are queen right. Are you sure you saw eggs all over? I would put in a frame a week for three weeks., so two more. That should take care of any laying workers. If you get queen cups then let them be to make some queens. I'm guessing you still have some drones left. My hives do but I am south of you.
 
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