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Discussion Starter #1
The flow of nutrients through a plant is brought about by a process called transpiration. At the end of that process water leaves the plant, often via orifices at the edge of the leaves. This is usually as water vapor, but sometimes as water droplets, or in this case it is evidenced as a frosty fringe around the leaves' edges. This occurrance of water at those edges is called guttation. Why would a beekeeper care? Bees are known to collect these droplets as part of their water foraging. There is evidence that some systemic insecticides occur at toxic levels in those water droplets. So, even if bees don't collect nectar or pollen from these plants, they may still pose a danger to honey bees.
 

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Just for the record . . .
Transpiration is when water leaves the plant (in daylight) in the form of vapor.
Guttation occurs at night and forms droplets on the plant (sometime thought to be dew).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, Dave W, I should have worded it differently. Thanks for putting the record straight.
 

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You guys make me wish I would have paid more attention in biology class.
 

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You guys make me wish I would have paid more attention in biology class.

You probably were concentrating on the wonders of biology seated around you. :rolleyes:
I couldn't help it to slip in this one comment.

Ernie
 

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With 80% of US corn now containing BT genes plus all the other modified crops its a wonder we have any Bees at all.
Wonder if or how long they will be able to survive the onslaught.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Corn in particular was brought up in an ABJ article by Randy Oliver...probably one of the same articles that Dave W read. He (RO) was addressing the question of systemic insectides. I thought the bt toxin was intercellular, so it may not be present in those water droplets.
It does make one wonder.
 

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Corn in particular was brought up in an ABJ article by Randy Oliver...probably the same article that Dave W read. He (RO) was addressing the question of systemic insectides. I thought the bt toxin was intercellular, so it may not be present in those water droplets.
It does make one wonder.
Don't know the quality of this research but look at this posting on another forum. There was a very good vid with the article showing how quickly the water killed the Bees but its no longer available. Again, I DON'T KNOW THE QUALITY OF THE RESEARCH. I'll try to find a copy of the no longer available vid that it referenced.

http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2271&highlight=guttation
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
There was a very good vid with the article showing how quickly the water killed the Bees
Randy O mentioned a video that showed bees consuming water droplets and dying, almost immediately. Even if the water droplets contain sublethal levels of those insecticides, they can't healthy for the bees.
 

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>biology class ???????
The ONLY thing I remember . . . my teacher was a beekeeper :)

The droplets have been shown to contain chemicals in concentrations 1000 (thousand) times greater than those chemicals that are expressed in the same plant's pollen and nectar. The chemicals are not necessarily "Bt" type chemicals that have been place in the plants genes, but are chemicals absorbed by the plants root system.
 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttation

Process
At night, transpiration usually does not occur because most plants have their stomata closed. When there is a high soil moisture level, water will enter plant roots, because the water potential of the roots is lower than in the soil solution. The water will accumulate in the plant, creating a slight root pressure. The root pressure forces some water to exude through special leaf tip or edge structures, hydathodes, forming drops. Root pressure provides the impetus for this flow, rather than transpirational pull.

[edit] Chemical content
Guttation fluid may contain a variety of organic and inorganic compounds, mainly sugars, and mineral nutrients, and potassium.[1] On drying, a white crust remains on the leaf surface.

[edit] Analysis
If high levels of nitrogen appear in the fluid, it is a sign of fertilizer burn[citation needed]. Excess nitrogen must be leached from the soil by addition of large quantities of water. This may result in water pollution, but is the best way to restore soil fertility.[2]
The bees could be dieing from N and or K toxicity.
It can be proved easily and economicaly.
Ernie
 

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Discussion Starter #16
. On drying, a white crust remains on the leaf surface.
If high levels of nitrogen appear in the fluid, it is a sign of fertilizer burnThe bees could be dieing from N and or K toxicity.
I don't know if you're referring to my photo but the white edge of that leaf is a result of the water droplets freezing during the night. The main thing I liked about the image was that it depicted guttation vividly.
Could N and K be contributing to honey bee die offs? Who knows? I heard Kim Flottum once say that CCD was likely 'death by a thousand cuts'. I won't be surprised if that isn't the case. No single 'smoking gun', but plenty of contributing factors.
 

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Don't know the quality of this research but look at this posting on another forum. There was a very good vid with the article showing how quickly the water killed the Bees but its no longer available. Again, I DON'T KNOW THE QUALITY OF THE RESEARCH. I'll try to find a copy of the no longer available vid that it referenced.

http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2271&highlight=guttation
Found the vid on U-TUBE here is the link=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Nsn4KvjwM
 
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