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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes well that's interesting Squarepeg.

Seems to me that most folks who want to do things treatment free will also be of a philosophy to set themselves up with either small cell or foundationless so that is overweighted among treatment free'ers. But there are those who have been just as successful with 5.4 cells. Where is StevenG these days?

The most well known supplier of treatment free queens, Weavers, do not use small cell and in fact I once saw him scoff at the idea. One of the best known suppliers of small cell bees, FatBeeMan, has to treat.

There must be a whole bunch of stuff in the mix that we do not realise.
Fatbeeman sells bees from the state of Georgia and is required by law to treat regardless of his mite count.
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Fatbeeman sells bees from the state of Georgia and is required by law to treat regardless of his mite count.
What?! Where did this come from?
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Oh thanks for that Stan I was not aware of the legal requirements. Is the treatment method specified in law?

Since mites are pretty much endemic now would not such a law be past it's use by date now?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

What?! Where did this come from?
Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale. I asked if apivar was one of the approved chemicals, he said it was, I was instructed to treat and call him for an inspection afterwards. I did not research the law itself. I was "called" on this by another Georgia beek, I asked him to research this and get back to me if the information I got from Mr. Dickson was wrong, I have not heard back from that beek. I would love to not have to treat because I have an apiary that I don't treat eight miles from my treated one that is doing fine, I don't sell bees from that one.
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale. I asked if apivar was one of the approved chemicals, he said it was, I was instructed to treat and call him for an inspection afterwards. I did not research the law itself. I was "called" on this by another Georgia beek, I asked him to research this and get back to me if the information I got from Mr. Dickson was wrong, I have not heard back from that beek. I would love to not have to treat because I have an apiary that I don't treat eight miles from my treated one that is doing fine, I don't sell bees from that one.
Is anyone aware of any other states with such requirements?
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.
Mark, I don't have an axe to grind or point to prove, I simply stated what information I got and from whom I got it, and invited anyone to prove that the information is wrong ( which would be to my benefit. ) Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.
I've had the same experience with my new honey house inspector. After 6 years of inspections by two other inspectors suddenly the new guy insists that I must have another sink. I could have created a stir....or spent fifty bucks putting in another sink. You have to pick your battles.
Having said that...I took a look and saw that you are required to have a license to sell bees in GA but cannot find nor have I ever heard of any treatment requirements. Inspections on my hives have always focused on AFB....none ever found. They have never even mentioned varroa....of course that would seem foolish as those critters are in every hive.
Sheesh! It's eleven AM, sunny and over 60 and I'm sitting at my computer?! Got to go.....there's real work to be done!
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Before I started selling bees I contacted the Georgia Department Of Agriculture supervisor David Williams, I asked for information on Ga. law and departmental regulations relating to the sale of bees. Apiary inspector Donald Dickson contacted me and said that it was required by Ga. law that I treat the hives by their approved chemicals, before sale.
Just as a data point, I bought a package of untreated bees from Wolf Creek last year. The package was packed in Georgia and had a Georgia inspection sticker.
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Just as a data point, I bought a package of untreated bees from Wolf Creek last year. The package was packed in Georgia and had a Georgia inspection sticker.
Ray...I'm interested in this too. The Georgia inspection sticker should have the supplier's name on it. Any chance you still have it?
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Mark, I don't have an axe to grind or point to prove, I simply stated what information I got and from whom I got it, and invited anyone to prove that the information is wrong ( which would be to my benefit. ) Now I could have went on a mission to prove the bee inspector wrong and argued with him, but since he is the one that was to approve my license, I think that would be rather stupid.
I didn't mean to imply that you yourself was being misleading, I just wondered if someone could come up w/ the GA Bee Laws?

What proof of use do you have to show?
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Something doesn't seem right here. A State Law requiring treatment? I'd like to see the Law. Show me the law.
I don't think that there is such a law, only the standard code that allows the state to require treatment under certain circumstances. The passage is below.

TITLE 2. AGRICULTURE
CHAPTER 14. SALE OF AGRICULTURAL AND FOREST PRODUCTS
ARTICLE 3. HONEYBEES


O.C.G.A. § 2-14-44 (2013)

§ 2-14-44. Disposition of infected bees or fixtures


The Commissioner, through his agents or employees, may require the removal from this state of any honeybees or beekeeping fixtures which have been brought into the state in violation of this article. If he finds that any bees or fixtures are infected with any contagious or infectious disease or that such bees or fixtures have been exposed to danger of infection by such diseases, that any honeybees have become Africanized, or that honeybees are confronted with any other threat in this state, the Commissioner may require the destruction, treatment, or disinfection of any such infected or exposed bees, hives, fixtures, or appliances.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

I didn't mean to imply that you yourself was being misleading, I just wondered if someone could come up w/ the GA Bee Laws?

What proof of use do you have to show?
Mark, I got off my butt and did the research. You are right there is no Ga. law requiring treatment that I can find. I did find this in the mission statement page of Gary Black the Department of Ag. commissioner on the apiary industry section under the mention of the bee law 2-14-40 ( Although not required by Georgia regulations many states will not permit the entry of beehives unless they have been inspected by the plant protection section and found free of pests.) What the plant protection section seems to have done is say we will not issue a state sticker to attach to your bees unless they have been treated. This puts me in an awkward position, I guess I will continue to treat the bees I sell and maintain my treatment free apiary for the time being. Thanks for everyone's input.
 

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Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

What the plant protection section seems to have done is say we will not issue a state sticker to attach to your bees unless they have been treated. This puts me in an awkward position, I guess I will continue to treat the bees I sell and maintain my treatment free apiary for the time being.
Do they specify what kind of treatment is required?

I might be tempted to hire a witchdoctor to do a little dance and supplicate the Bee Gods. Or hire a shaman to blow a little sage smoke around the apiary. If anyone complains, protest this abridgment of your religious freedom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

Do they specify what kind of treatment is required?

I might be tempted to hire a witchdoctor to do a little dance and supplicate the Bee Gods. Or hire a shaman to blow a little sage smoke around the apiary. If anyone complains, protest this abridgment of your religious freedom.
The inspector did say there was a list, but I didn't ask details since I wasn't willing to go stronger than apivar, When I talk with him next I will ask, I have made a note to send you a pm when I get the info.
 

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Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens

To facilitate this discussion, :D I have copied the critical part of the Georgia rule .02 that Saltybee references:
40-4-1-.02 Queen and Package Certificates

(1) No licensee shall ship any package bees or queens unless they:
...
(b) colonies from which queens and package bees originate must be treated at least 7 days prior to shipment with a pesticide registered by the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Georgia Department of Agriculture for controlling Varroa destructor.

http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/docs/40/4/1/02.pdf
Note that the treatment must be a registered pesticide.



Excellent research work Saltybee.:thumbsup::thumbsup: I had earlier found the GA law, but the rules eluded me.:)


.
 

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Re: Georgia Law requires treatment before selling Packages and Queens

So, bees sold from Georgia do have to be mite treated with a registered treatment?

Thing is, Fatbeeman uses FGMO, OE's and such, are they registered?
 
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