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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey guy's. i started my hive april 16th. so far the girls are doing great.

i have a 10 frame deep and a 10 frame super, the deep is full and i have lots of bee's hanging outside the entrance. i put an excluder between the brood and super and they don't seem to care for going up into the super.

i'm worried they are running out of room in the deep, but why are the not going up into the empty super? should i add another deep now?

thanks, Calvin
 

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If your deep is full or close to full, it's time to put on a 2nd deep for the queen to lay in and give some more space in the hive. Regarding the honey super, you didn't mention if the frames are drawn out or not, if not, lightly spray some sugar water on the frames to get the bee going on them, and take your excluder off until they draw it out. If already drawn out and you have a spare frame with some honey/nectar in it, place above excluder to get them to go up. PP
 

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pull the excluder out and they will go up. once they have gone up after a week or so you probably can put the excluder back on if you want. I dont use excluders and the queen will usually lay up two to two and a half boxes up. i figure if she needs the room i let her have it. If they still dont move up after the excluder is off pull a frame from you deep and hang it in the upper box. this will get them to move up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
pull the excluder out and they will go up. once they have gone up after a week or so you probably can put the excluder back on if you want. I dont use excluders and the queen will usually lay up two to two and a half boxes up. i figure if she needs the room i let her have it. If they still dont move up after the excluder is off pull a frame from you deep and hang it in the upper box. this will get them to move up.
yeah, i put the excluder on to keep the queen out of the super. i've got to get boxes ready quick lol

thanks
 

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Keep feeding until they quit taking it, it will help them draw it out, takes a lot of their energy to make wax.
 

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Just don't feed while they are drawing out comb that you are going to extract honey from. It will be filled with capped sugar water.
 

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Just don't feed while they are drawing out comb that you are going to extract honey from. It will be filled with capped sugar water.

I disagree. Feed until the comb is drawn out.

Stop feeding before they start storing honey in the freshly drawn combs.

Bees don't draw a row of cells, store honey and cap it, and then draw the next row of cells. This is what they would need to do for them to do what you have described.

When bees start drawing comb, they draw it out in advance of their immediate storage needs.
 

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Bees don't draw out a full frame then later store honey/syrup in the cells. They start storing as they are drawing! If the brood box is full they will store that syrup in the honey super! When a frame is drawn and they start the next, if they don't have anymore room they will immediately start storing syrup in the new frame even if it is a baseball sized patch they have started to draw.

I keep seeing alot of misinformation on feeding bees here lately. If the brood chamber is dry is one thing but when it is full of brood, honey and pollen where will they store the syrup? IN THE HONEY SUPER!
 

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You need 2 deeps for a brood nest ( or at least a deep and a shallow ). Bait the new deep with drawn comb from below. A good plan is to take the #1 and #10 frame and put them in the upper deep in the #4 and #6 position with a frame of foundation between.
Bees will NOT draw foundation without a honeyflow ! You can create one by feeding syrup.
I would never use a queen excluder unless I had a compelling need for it. They are useful at times BUT generally they do more harm than good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks guy's. it seems that my excluder was definatly doing more harm than good. also, it's plastic. they never seemed to be able to squeeze thru it much. also, i guess for now, i'll keep feeding while they are drawing out the frames and keep an eye on them. if they start filling, then remove the feed.

rite now, i have a deep and a super. i didn't expect the deep to fill this quickly. i removed the excluder, spayed syrup on the undrawn super frames and let them have at it. went back at dark yesterday and the super was full of bees.

i put the excluder in to keep the queen from laying eggs in the super. i will be getting more deeps and supers and let them do as they wish for now. find a metal excluder to use if i decide on it. never cared for that plastic one. but i have read here that many people like them or had no complaints.
 

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A good queen needs more than one deep super for a brood nest. You must decide if you will use 2 deep supers or 1 deep super and 1 shallow super for a brood nest. If you use a deep super and a shallow super you will be crowding a good queen who could lay more if she had the space. She is likely to go even higher into the surplus honey supers looking for space. This is where you need the queen excluder to keep her out of what you plan to extract ( or cut ). You will also have two different size frames, so you cannot mix & match as you might want to.
When you crowd the queen you are encouraging swarming ! Why would you want to restrict a good, vigorous queen and stimulate swarming ? ? ? That is like putting a restrictor plate on a carburetor ! ! !
A better plan is 2 deep supers for a brood nest. ( An even better plan is 3 medium-depth Illinois supers ). As your brood combs become dark, the queen would much rather lay in that dark comb. If you don't crowd her she will stay out of your surplus honey supers WITHOUT a queen excluder. Excluders cut your honey crop ( maybe in half, if not more ).
 

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Bees don't draw out a full frame then later store honey/syrup in the cells. They start storing as they are drawing! If the brood box is full they will store that syrup in the honey super! When a frame is drawn and they start the next, if they don't have anymore room they will immediately start storing syrup in the new frame even if it is a baseball sized patch they have started to draw.

Gotta go with beeslave on this one. I have capped honey about the size of a baseball on one frame....they store as they draw...
 

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There is no way bees will draw a box of comb (or even a whole frame) without putting something in it as it is drawn. No, they don't cap it row by row, but they draw it part way out and start using it.

For all of you new beekeepers wondering why you get such different responses to questions, this is the internet. People can say anything. If you put your bees on anything but drawn comb go out and watch how they draw and fill comb.

They don't draw comb that they don't need. You can see this as they draw just ahead of their brood/pollen/honey storage needs. You can see a few inches of extra comb, not a box worth.

The only way you will see a whole frame of drawn comb with nothing in it is if they put something there and then moved (or used) it. Don't put supers on that you want filled with real honey if you are feeding syrup. They will put syrup in there as they syrup is the reason that they draw the comb in the first place.
 

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:eek:t:But everything on the internet is pure truth.....:lpf::lpf::eek:t:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A good queen needs more than one deep super for a brood nest. You must decide if you will use 2 deep supers or 1 deep super and 1 shallow super for a brood nest. If you use a deep super and a shallow super you will be crowding a good queen who could lay more if she had the space. She is likely to go even higher into the surplus honey supers looking for space. This is where you need the queen excluder to keep her out of what you plan to extract ( or cut ). You will also have two different size frames, so you cannot mix & match as you might want to.
When you crowd the queen you are encouraging swarming ! Why would you want to restrict a good, vigorous queen and stimulate swarming ? ? ? That is like putting a restrictor plate on a carburetor ! ! !
A better plan is 2 deep supers for a brood nest. ( An even better plan is 3 medium-depth Illinois supers ). As your brood combs become dark, the queen would much rather lay in that dark comb. If you don't crowd her she will stay out of your surplus honey supers WITHOUT a queen excluder. Excluders cut your honey crop ( maybe in half, if not more ).
i didn't intend to restrict the queen, i plan to have 2 or 3 deeps for the queen, it's just that they filled the 1 deep i have faster than expected. therefore, for now, if they want the super for brood untill i get more deeps, then so be it. it's my own fault i know, just didn't expect the quickness. i've got to get with it asap. i plan to have 2-3 deeps and 2-4 supers by the end. supers as needed of course.
There is no way bees will draw a box of comb (or even a whole frame) without putting something in it as it is drawn. No, they don't cap it row by row, but they draw it part way out and start using it.

For all of you new beekeepers wondering why you get such different responses to questions, this is the internet. People can say anything. If you put your bees on anything but drawn comb go out and watch how they draw and fill comb.

They don't draw comb that they don't need. You can see this as they draw just ahead of their brood/pollen/honey storage needs. You can see a few inches of extra comb, not a box worth.

The only way you will see a whole frame of drawn comb with nothing in it is if they put something there and then moved (or used) it. Don't put supers on that you want filled with real honey if you are feeding syrup. They will put syrup in there as they syrup is the reason that they draw the comb in the first place.
it's common sense really, in the wild, they are not going to draw more than they need
:eek:t:But everything on the internet is pure truth.....:lpf::lpf::eek:t:
truff

i have been on the net in forums for a long time. you have to take the good with the bad and disect everything in between lol.

well it has been about 26 years since i fooled with bee's. please bear with me.

thanks for the help guy's
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
btw, i'm not worried about surplus honey at this time. i would rather the colony grow and them have what they need. figure maybe next year i may be able to get honey. it's more of a fascination and hobby for me. i've always liked honey bees
 
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