[dave cahill]

Hello,

I did a search for this question in the archives and could not find an answer...so...
If the ideal size for a bait hive is 40.1 liters, is that empty without frames? Is that with frames or is it with frames and foundation?
If it is with frames and foundation once they are added your volume decreases.
I have 3 bait hives out right now: one that has 6 frames with foundation and one black comb with a lure.
2 supers with one black comb and 3 frames of foundation and lure.
I have read to put in frames to avoid a cutout...Michael Bush said in one thread that they like to cluster in the middle of the bait hive initially....so that says foundation-less frames....any thoughts/direction would be appreciated.

Dave

 

[WoolheaterFarms]

What I have seen work for others with langstroth bait hives typically involves draw comb in the center frames along with the scent of an attractant like lemongrass or a commercial lure. I'd bet that the volume is just the outer dimensions. A Deep is about 40.2 liters and a medium is closer to 26.8 liters. Not knowing the placement of the bait hives, I would recommend having them up off the ground, as high as you feel comfortable.

 

[D Coates]

Foundationless frames in a swarm trap is a recipe for a cut-out later on. I'd recommend against it. Assuming you're using plastic foundation, put it in there with one frame of old drawn comb and forget it. At worst if you're using wax foundation at least get a ribbon under the top as a guide for the to draw on. If you get a swarm they'll build up on foundation. If you don't have foundation in there they'll build the way they want to which is 99% of the time not where you want them to. Everyone ends up expending energy and resources that does no one any good in the long haul.

 

[dave cahill]

Thank you for the replies,
I put out two medium supers with lures...but it sounds like they are to small in volume to work...should be deeps.
So...I need to use deeps with a lure, one black comb frame in the middle, along with 9 frames with plastic foundation.
Is it worth leaving the med supers out there? Or is it just a waste of time?

DAve

 

[Ross]

Foundationless frames work just fine in a swarm trap, just as they work on new packages, new supers, etc. As long as you have a guide on the top bar, they will do as good a job with foundationless as they will with plastic, usually better. One old comb is a good lure and helps them get started, but isn't necessary.

 

[fish_stix]

I agree with Ross. I've been trying foundationless frames in my swarm traps and virtually every one has drawn nice straight comb, but I've found that they're slower at drawing it than the wax foundation I normally give them after capturing them. They also don't fill out the frames like they do the foundation, but that's just my experience with them. BTW, I ripped some guide bars to fit in the top groove and rubbed a good coat of wax on the edge.

 

[Michael Bush]

I like foundationless in bait hives. It doesn't melt, buckle etc. One old comb is nice too as bait, but more than that just attracts wax moths...

 

[dave cahill]

Thank you all for the helpful information.

I will build one to spec and try the foundation-less frames.

I have two medium supers out right now....Plywood top and bottom as bait hives....is the volume too small? Am I wasting my time with them?

Dave

 

[Hoskee]

My medium bait supers caught more swarms than my full sized this year, so I don't think the smaller size of mediums is a problem unless you have a huge prime swarm. I put a rope around them and hoist them as far up in a tree as I can throw a rope, about 30 feet. I use rotten supers that are so bad they have a big hole in them. The rotten hole becomes the entrance and all I do is nail OSB (plywood) on the top and bottom. I tape all the places light could get in and also tape the rotten entrance hole smaller if it is too big. I dip paper towel in a little lemon grass and toss it in. This setup works so well that I took my name off the swarm list since now the bees are just coming to me. The only thing I have to worry about is that my spouse doesn't like to look at rotten duct-taped hive bodies hanging from our nice oak trees.

Hoskee

 

[dave cahill]

thanks hoskee,

thats good news. i will send one up higher in the tree!
sounds like you have a perfect system.


Dave

 

[Oldbee]

"I put a rope around them and hoist them as far up in a tree as I can throw a rope, about 30 feet." --Hoskee.

Do you attach them to the tree or stabilize them in some way? Do they just swing in the breeze then?

 

[David LaFerney]

I bet the smell from Hoskees well used boxes is a big factor in their success. It might be good to replace old boxes with new in working hives and use the old ones as lures.