I use foundationless in my supers and I use mono or wire in them. I have had only one occasion of a "blow out" and it was caused by my then 8 year old son cranking up the speed in the extractor to "tornado" speed. I should note that I use shallow frames for my supers.
Foundationless Supers
As of now, the only hive boxes and frames in my possession are the two deeps I ordered to get things going, the "N style" frames from kelley, and the standard deep foundation for the frames. I've been shopping around and looking to go ahead and get some mediums ordered to have ready well ahead of time for supers. The question though, if I decide to go foundationless will the bees move on up and take to drawing out the empty frames without a fuss? I've read quite a few posts with people talking about placing foundationless frames between drawn frames, but more so to keep the comb straight. I'm assuming the bees will do their thing and make use of any open space given, and that drawing straight comb will be the dice roll. Hive is level side to side. Was also considering cutting my losses on the extra N frames and foundation, ordering foundationless frames for the other deep, and working them in once its time to add the second brood box.
Another question with foundationless supers, I've seen people talk about using chicken wire wrapped around the full frames to keep from blowing them out in extractors. Would using mono fishing line or foundation wire and letting the bees draw comb around them be sufficient to support the frames in an extractor? I used 12lb mono on my deep frames, "fatbeeman" style, which I've heard others enjoy. Advantages over wire being its cheaper and easier to cut out should you wish to take some queen cells. I considered just doing comb honey or crush extraction and not fooling with the wires... little patience will save some money on an extractor and provides more wax is my thinking. Just looking to economical methods and habits to develop early on, also have the ultimate goal of self sufficiency. Not having to fool with foundation or its costs fits both agendas. I don't expect to be doing any extracting this first year regardless, just wanting to plan ahead
Wish I had found these forums before reading the books I have, lol
Another question with foundationless supers, I've seen people talk about using chicken wire wrapped around the full frames to keep from blowing them out in extractors. Would using mono fishing line or foundation wire and letting the bees draw comb around them be sufficient to support the frames in an extractor? I used 12lb mono on my deep frames, "fatbeeman" style, which I've heard others enjoy. Advantages over wire being its cheaper and easier to cut out should you wish to take some queen cells. I considered just doing comb honey or crush extraction and not fooling with the wires... little patience will save some money on an extractor and provides more wax is my thinking. Just looking to economical methods and habits to develop early on, also have the ultimate goal of self sufficiency. Not having to fool with foundation or its costs fits both agendas. I don't expect to be doing any extracting this first year regardless, just wanting to plan ahead
Wish I had found these forums before reading the books I have, lol1 - 10 of 10 Posts
1. I would recommend against a foundation frame between two foundationless frames. My bees will show a preference for the FL frame and pull it wide. This is more true in the supers. A piece of drawn comb is a different story.As of now, the only hive boxes and frames in my possession are the two deeps I ordered to get things going, the "N style" frames from kelley, and the standard deep foundation for the frames. I've been shopping around and looking to go ahead and get some mediums ordered to have ready well ahead of time for supers. The question though, if I decide to go foundationless will the bees move on up and take to drawing out the empty frames without a fuss? I've read quite a few posts with people talking about placing foundationless frames between drawn frames, but more so to keep the comb straight. I'm assuming the bees will do their thing and make use of any open space given, and that drawing straight comb will be the dice roll. Hive is level side to side. Was also considering cutting my losses on the extra N frames and foundation, ordering foundationless frames for the other deep, and working them in once its time to add the second brood box.
Another question with foundationless supers, I've seen people talk about using chicken wire wrapped around the full frames to keep from blowing them out in extractors. Would using mono fishing line or foundation wire and letting the bees draw comb around them be sufficient to support the frames in an extractor? I used 12lb mono on my deep frames, "fatbeeman" style, which I've heard others enjoy. Advantages over wire being its cheaper and easier to cut out should you wish to take some queen cells. I considered just doing comb honey or crush extraction and not fooling with the wires... little patience will save some money on an extractor and provides more wax is my thinking. Just looking to economical methods and habits to develop early on, also have the ultimate goal of self sufficiency. Not having to fool with foundation or its costs fits both agendas. I don't expect to be doing any extracting this first year regardless, just wanting to plan ahead
2. I would not put chicken wire on my FL frames in my supers. I have spun out many FL frames and have not had any blowouts. Our centrifugal extractor "flips" the frames. So we spin about half a side out, flip it, spin the other side out, flip it back and finish the first side. We may convert it to a radial which will hold more frames and be less prone to blowouts.
3. You don't need special frames to go FL. Most people just flip the wedge down and go on. If you use deep FL frames, you may want to wire them for support. I do not wire mediums.
Shane
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
