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I made arrangements to buy my first 4 hives from a local keeper. I placed an order with Western for 2 more thier question to me was duraglit or plasticell....so I put the question to the forum which one is better for a newbee! Also I choose the commercial hive bodies thanks to another thread.
 

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I've used them both. You'll get a little better acceptance with the DuraGilt, but if the wax ever comes off they won't rebuild it. DuraComb is the same problem, but I've used a lot of it with split pins and had good luck. The PlastiCell works fine. Spray it with Honey Bee Healthy Syrup for better acceptance, or just regular syrup if you can't get the HBH. PermaComb is actually much nicer than either.

Personally I'd buy the small cell wax and just put a simple "X" of wire (one wire on each side).

If they all didn't work there wouldn't be a market for them.
 

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Get the Plasticell, not the Duragilt. The wax on the Duragilt will inevitably peel away from the plastic, leaving you with garbage.
 

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I'd get the plasticell then sell it, if possible I'd opt for neither and get the small cell foundation. But thats me....so you can take this or toss it and do what you want.
 

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Dadant has the small cell plastic http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=622 and the small cell wax http://www.dadant.com/catalog/default.php?osCsid=0269bbc719bdb265c1b9fdfada8775aa&cPath=38 . Brushy Mt. also has the small cell wax http://www.beeequipment.com/search.asp

Other than the wax coated PermaComb, I don't buy anything but small cell for brood. I often do starter strips of small cell for brood or blank strips for brood (I make my own) or I use starter strips of 7/11 surplus for comb honey.

Even if you don't want to get too serious about regression, just using small cell foundation will pay in the long run.
 

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I've yet to get my bees to accept any of the Dadant 4.9 mm Plastic. Am going to try again in the spring when the flow is on but to date they have done everything they could to not build on it.
 

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Wfarler,
Did you have to tell me that. I was one of the people that Mike was thinking of when he said"not too serious" re; regression but I just bought enough for 5 brood boxes for my increase this year. I intend a couple of packages and a few swarms or splits.What do the bees do rather than draw it? Abscond? I really just thought I'd try it with new bees and work from there. Now I don't know what to expect.

Dick Marron
 

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Dick,

Just because you have plastic doesn't me you won'y have regression process to go through with the bees. I try the package bees out on the plastic. Make sure you keep a queen excluder under the hive to trap queen in so they can't abscond (you are now warned!). Make sure frames are pushed tightly together. Then slowly phase the the bad ones out as they happen.....
 

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>Did you have to tell me that. I was one of the people that Mike was thinking of when he said"not too serious" re; regression but I just bought enough for 5 brood boxes for my increase this year. I intend a couple of packages and a few swarms or splits.What do the bees do rather than draw it? Abscond? I really just thought I'd try it with new bees and work from there. Now I don't know what to expect.

I have only put the plastic in when the bees were regressed already, but I think others have used it for regression with good luck. I've only used the wax on full sized bees. I also used small cell starter strips and blank starter strips on large bees. Of course the wax coated PermaComb was simple, instant and well accepted.

It's a good idea to put an excluder on the bottom when installing a package anyway. I've had bees abscond when I was putting "normal" foundation in. Not often, but it has happened. After they start building some comb you can remove the excluder and they won't abscond once the queen is laying in the comb. Usually three or four days will do it.

If you don't have an excluder I wouldn't worry too much. They will still probably do fine.
 

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I should have been clearer. I didn't buy the plastic ... I went for the small cell beeswax. I guess all of the above still applies, though I'm still wondering if absconding is the main problem or if the bees do some other tricks.

Dick Marron
 

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My first try at regression I did shake downs. Since I wanted more hives, I also did splits. My first experiment was my observation hive. In all of these I put starter strips. A couple of small nucs ended up empty, but I think they may have just moved back in with the main hive. The rest happily built 5.15mm cells on the starter strips. I then put the biggest of those on full sheets of 4.9mm foundation which they aslo happily drew. Unfortunate the mite population exploded that fall and I tried to treat them but the Apistan didn't work very well and it was late in the game.

That is pretty much all the experience I have at using foundation. Since then it's been the wax coated PermaComb. But from what I've seen the bees are happy to use the wax 4.9mm foundation. They may misdraw some of it, but mostly they do pretty well at it.

My guess is they accept and will do just as well on 4.9mm wax as on any other size in the short run and in the long run they will do better.
 

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>>if possible I'd opt for neither and get the small cell foundation.

I would suggest otherwise. You are new to the beekeeping world? If yes, then avoid using small cell untill you get the hang of things. Trying to draw out small cell works, but from what I hear, can be very frustrating, miss drawn and messed up. Might lose your luster to beekeeping becasue of it. There is an art in drawing foundation, I would learn that art on standard foundation.
I personally use Percio, and like it. My experience is the white draws better than the black, but everyone tells me otherwise. Anyhow be sure to draw during a heavey flow, or feed heavely. I think everyone would agree that foundation is drawn out better while there is lots of food coming in

Ian
 

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>I would suggest otherwise. You are new to the beekeeping world? If yes, then avoid using small cell untill you get the hang of things. Trying to draw out small cell works, but from what I hear, can be very frustrating, miss drawn and messed up. Might lose your luster to beekeeping becasue of it. There is an art in drawing foundation, I would learn that art on standard foundation.

I really like blank starter strips the best and small cell starter strips next. The bees are happy to draw on wax whatever they want. But I haven't had any problems with misdrawn 4.9 wax.

>I personally use Percio, and like it. My experience is the white draws better than the black, but everyone tells me otherwise. Anyhow be sure to draw during a heavey flow, or feed heavely. I think everyone would agree that foundation is drawn out better while there is lots of food coming in

True. I've seen everything misdrawn as far as "between combs" that come out from the face and cross combs. But they do it less on wax and more on plastic, but I've seen them do on everything. I rather like Pierco and RiteCell etc. myself but it's not availabe in small cell. I also love the PermaComb which is also not availabe in the small cell. One thing about starter strips the bees get what they want and they are more willing to do that.
 

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Mike and others,
When you start with starter strips do you do so with wired frames? I'm picturing the bee engineers working down to the first wire and saying, "This looks strong, let's build this into the center of the comb!" Do they do that?

Question 2.
I salvaged some wax from hives that had AFB, and I doubt if I'm the first to do this. I'm keeping it separate but if I sold it, do the foundation makers have a way of killing spores. How do they do that? As I understand it the spores can stand a really high temp. If I sent it to Dadant to make foundation for me, I wonder if I'd get the same wax back, (Impossible I think.) Just musing.

Dick Marron
 

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>When you start with starter strips do you do so with wired frames? I'm picturing the bee engineers working down to the first wire and saying, "This looks strong, let's build this into the center of the comb!" Do they do that?

I have not, but others have said they ran some wax on the wires and wired them. If I DID I'd probably just do an "X" or a horizontal in the middle maybe. You do have to handle a frame with starter strips gently until they have attached it at the bottom. Always keep it upright so the comb doesn't break off, but once they attach the bottom its strong enough.

>Question 2.
I salvaged some wax from hives that had AFB, and I doubt if I'm the first to do this. I'm keeping it separate but if I sold it, do the foundation makers have a way of killing spores. How do they do that? As I understand it the spores can stand a really high temp.

The spores can handle boiling temperatures but if it gets hot enough it will kill them. Those of us without a pressure steam system can't get it hot enough.

>If I sent it to Dadant to make foundation for me, I wonder if I'd get the same wax back, (Impossible I think.)

That's the theory.

I think I'd just burn it, myself.
 

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MIKI,

Thought I'd bring this thread back - what did you end up using and how did it work for you?

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Rob Koss
 
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