[Bill Dickerson]

I tried to go to frame school but I may have ordered wrong. I see discussion where sometimes the foundation is a little off.

I ordered the deep grooved top and bottom. I ordered the wired frames without hooks.

8 1/2" X 16 3/4" (21.59 cm X 42.55 cm) Wired Foundation - Without Hooks - 10 Sheets

Did I order the correct size and type?

 

[crofter]

Do you have an electric crosswire embedder? Are your sidebars drilled for crosswires. Wired wax foundation without hooks can be a problem. It really should not be supported from the bottoms or it tends to curve and bow out sideways. It should hang supported not stand on the vertical wires. Grooved top and bottom frames are for plastic foundation.

Need answers to the first two questions.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

I was planning on making a wire embedder.
They are drilled.

What frames should I have ordered?

 

[Bill Dickerson]

I was planning on making a wire embedder.
They are drilled.

What frames should I have ordered?

Was thinking I might be able to use fishing line take the bow out.

 

[crofter]

Wedge top bar, split bottom bar & hooked wired foundation go together. Are you talking electric heated embedder. Monofilament or steel fishing wire?

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Well darn. I did a bunch of reading and I was sure I ordered the right ones. Thanks for the head up on that.

I was talking about both the 24 gauge steel wire for the electrical embed.

It crossed my mind that monofilament line like in the foundation-less frames might straighten then.

I did some more reading in here and a couple others had a similar problem because they ordered from two different suppliers.

One used a blade for paper to trim them a little. I have an old one I might be able to make it work to trim them.

 

[crofter]

If you can determine how much bowing tendency there is in the embedded vertical wire you can put two crosswires on one side top and bottom and the two center wires on the other side to push them in line. The amount of inherent curve in the comb is from near dead flat to quite bowed. You cant properly embed monofilament line very effectively. 24 guage is heavy. Sounds like mig wire. Dedicated bee frame wire is about .014 " dont know guage equivalent.

Vertical wire without hooks in top grooved frames gives no upper support. You can more or less suspend it by the cross wires but they have to be tight and thouroughly embedded right to the centre of the embossing and against the vertical wires. I dont really know whether it would be better to trim the bottoms and leave them up totally clear of the grooved bottom bar. Is it too late to reorder and use up what you have as foundationless frames and nip the no hooks foundation up into starter strips? Those frames are proper for plastic foundation.

You are far from the first ones to face this problem. It used to be the order clerks new the business and would see that you got the right combinations.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

I probably should have called but I ordered online.
It’s actually 26 gauge they sell at the suppliers. It sounds large but the bigger the number the smaller the wire.

I’ll have to see what I can do with what I have. The cost was a struggle as it is.

 

[JWPalmer]

Use those frames as foundationless. Buy some beeswax on Ebay, cut a piece or two of the no hook foundation into strips and use melted beeswax to embed the strips into the groove in the top bar. Use your wire to crosswire the frames so that the newly drawn comb is supported. Lemonade from lemons.

 

[AHudd]

Use those frames as foundationless. Buy some beeswax on Ebay, cut a piece or two of the no hook foundation into strips and use melted beeswax to embed the strips into the groove in the top bar. Use your wire to crosswire the frames so that the newly drawn comb is supported. Lemonade from lemons.

Like installing foundation for cut comb?

Alex

 

[John Davis]

One point is missing.
As has been said the wax foundation needs to be supported or hung from the top bar and free to expand down into the bottom groove.
What JW said waxes the foundation strip into the top bar.
I install wired no hook foundation that way all the time. Turn frame upside down, put edge of foundation in groove, push foundation to bow it just like you would plastic until it can pop into bottom groove.
Turn frame back upside down and tap to get foundation all the way into the top bar groove. Use a wax tube fastener to put melted wax in the groove to hold the foundation in place. Once cooled and firm the foundation should be tight in the top and free in the bottom.

 

[crofter]

John, I think success with that depends on the dimensions of the particular combination of foundation and the frames it will be put in. I have seen it warp very badly, actually enough to interfere with adjacent frames. I had to trim some of it. Probably depends some upon how much inherent memory curve is in the vertical wires. The box of it I played with would cup about 3/4" after you took it out and let it warm up.

I agree that it should have space under the toes of the wire.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

Do you have an electric crosswire embedder? Are your sidebars drilled for crosswires. Wired wax foundation without hooks can be a problem. It really should not be supported from the bottoms or it tends to curve and bow out sideways. It should hang supported not stand on the vertical wires. Grooved top and bottom frames are for plastic foundation.

Need answers to the first two questions.

I’ve decided to order the plastic foundation.
I also thought I should check to be sure this time. I included a page of the ones I think are correct. Please let me know.

P.S. Is there any advantages on the black ones?

 

[Tarheeler]

I’ve decided to order the plastic foundation.
I also thought I should check to be sure this time. I included a page of the ones I think are correct. Please let me know.

P.S. Is there any advantages on the black ones?


View attachment 62300

Yea you can see the eggs mo better

 

[crofter]

I think that is your best path. Play with the other wired wax foundation later if you cannot return it. Yes to the black foundation as Tarheeler says.! Dont leave them sitting out in the sun for more than a minute or two as the suck up the heat quick and distort

 

[Bill Dickerson]

I think that is your best path. Play with the other wired wax foundation later if you cannot return it. Yes to the black foundation as Tarheeler says.! Dont leave them sitting out in the sun for more than a minute or two as the suck up the heat quick and distort

Thank you

 

[Murdock]

You may want to add an additional coat of wax on the plastic foundation once you get them installed.

 

[missybee]

You may want to add an additional coat of wax on the plastic foundation once you get them installed.

I melt wax and paint it on, the bees build it out a lot better.

 

[AHudd]

I’ve decided to order the plastic foundation.
I also thought I should check to be sure this time. I included a page of the ones I think are correct. Please let me know.

P.S. Is there any advantages on the black ones?


View attachment 62300

Check the MannLake sale page, the Natural color is on sale.
It is for 100 sheets, here is a link 8 1/2" (21.59 cm) Waxed Perma-Dent Foundation - White - Case of 100

Alex

 

[Bill Dickerson]

How many pounds of bees wax to paint 100 frames of foundations?