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Discussion Starter #1
So there's a ton of threads on fishing line usage on foundationless setups in frames.

They are really interesting.

There's a couple of things that aren't talked about though...and I wanted to follow up on this.

When they talk about using fishing line in foundationless they don't specify or recommend a particular knot or how to tie it? Any reccomendation on that?

The slipperiness of fishing line particularly means the the type of knot used would be key to getting efficiency out of this.
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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Some tie the line around a nail and then hammer the nail down to hold it tight. I tie a knot that does not slip once pulled tight. Start like you are tying a regular square knot, except put an extra wrap on the top half of the knot. I can give it two tugs before it cinches. Then I follow it with a four wrap overhand knot.
So, starting at one of the top holes, I thread the line horizontally then go outside the frame down to the next set of holes. Both tails end up on the same side of the endbar and that is where I tie the knot. Once tight, I trim the tail to about 1/4". I have done several hundred frames and have not had any slip so far. Make sure you use 25-30# test line or you will break it getting it tight.
 
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JW, I guess you use eyelets in each hole to help with getting it tight. I'm using wire still but I think I will try the fishing line this year. 4 lines on a deep and 2 on a medium?
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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No eyelets, just thread it through the holes in the endbars. The fishing line does not cut in like the wire does. Line gets tight enough to strum like a cheap toy guitar. Two on a medium, four on a deep, like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Some tie the line around a nail and then hammer the nail down to hold it tight. I tie a knot that does not slip once pulled tight. Start like you are tying a regular square knot, except put an extra wrap on the top half of the knot. I can give it two tugs before it cinches. Then I follow it with a four wrap overhand knot.
So, starting at one of the top holes, I thread the line horizontally then go outside the frame down to the next set of holes. Both tails end up on the same side of the endbar and that is where I tie the knot. Once tight, I trim the tail to about 1/4". I have done several hundred frames and have not had any slip so far. Make sure you use 25-30# test line or you will break it getting it tight.
Oh! Nice. Thank you.

That makes sense. I can see why people get tired of using fishing line just from the difficulty of fighting it around the frames.

But if it can hold it seems like a really nice low cost tool. I was surprised by how much cheaper it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No eyelets, just thread it through the holes in the endbars. The fishing line does not cut in like the wire does. Line gets tight enough to strum like a cheap toy guitar. Two on a medium, four on a deep, like this.
Wow. Thanks.

So your comment gives me the impression that fishing line could let the wood in the frame last longer, compared to wire cutting in? Is that the case, or am I reading too much into this?

You guys have saved me so much time. It would have taken months or years to get that same knowledge by experimenting solo.

I feel grateful.
 

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I use fishing line as well, no eyelets. I wrap mine around the nails and drive the nail down. This seems York for me.
 

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This year I am doing 1 line at the bottom only just to keep it a bi more secure. I am doing small nails. But maybe I should learn how to make a thick knot at one end and nail at the other.
 

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I much prefer wire to monofilament and staples rather than eyelets; wire crimper to tension the wire. Crimped wire grips the wax better and has more give and spring back so it does not go slack. Is mono cheaper? Dunno but my old fingers dont do well with that slippery tangely stuff.:(
 

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I tried it for a couple year. Now happily back to wire. And a air stapler
 

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I tried it for a couple year. Now happily back to wire. And a air stapler
Yes, narow crown stapler with 1 1/2" staples for top bar and a T50 air stapler for reinforcing staples at the sidebar crosswire holes rather than eyelets; quicker and cheaper.
 

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A tiny nail in the side of the frame works great. Just start two nails at the holes (I use this little tool from Ace Hardware), wrap the line around 5 or 6 times and tap it down tight. Only takes a few seconds per frame. We use crush and strain for honey so this works well for us.
 

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With the nail protruding 1/4 inch, I wrap it around the nail once, then I pull it tight, wrap one more time and retighten, and then keeping it tight, I make a total of twelve wraps. Holding it tight, I drive the nail home. It doesn't slip. I do the starter nail the same twelve wrap way.

There are some videos that are just X-ing the fishing line from corner to corner. I've found that does not work nearly as well as running a traditional 4 hole pattern.

That said, stringing frames is time consuming and plastic foundation is superior in every way so I don't make very many foundationless frames any more except to give them a place for drone comb. And even for drone comb I've found that a 1/3 sheet of plastic with open space on each side is often adequate instead of stringing a frame (thanks to Laurie — I think that was who it was — for that idea).
 

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That is pretty much where I have arrived too. I use half sheets of plastic and leave the sides to be drawn mainly drone. I put two such frames in each box and that keeps the drone brood from being built between boxes. The novelty of hanging wax, cross wiring and embedding it etc., has worn off. Wax is getting pricey now too.
 

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When they talk about using fishing line in foundationless they don't specify or recommend a particular knot or how to tie it? Any reccomendation on that?

The slipperiness of fishing line particularly means the the type of knot used would be key to getting efficiency out of this.
Joe May has a youtube video showing his method of stringing monofilament. He uses nearly all foundationless frames. Mono stringing starts about 5:30-
Woolie B also has a video showing 3 options for stringing monofilament in frames. He mentions that he likes 30 lb. mono.
You will notice that both of these gentlemen wear a glove to protect the hand that tightens the fishing line...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It looks like people just do a generic X using half of the holes in these. Is that generally enough or do you also try to use the other half of the holes for complementing line beyond just the basic X?
 

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It looks like people just do a generic X using half of the holes in these. Is that generally enough or do you also try to use the other half of the holes for complementing line beyond just the basic X?
I would almost think you have not read the previous responses to your opening post. Lots of options to serve the various needs; if you have holes left over when you satisfy those needs, and the empty holes bother you, you could plug them. :rolleyes:
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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I am thinking it is a matter of oersonal preference. The "x" uses less fishing line than the 4 strand approach. But I believe the four stands offer a little bit better support. Flip a coin to decide.
 
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