Set out at least a dozen swarm traps. They need to be about 10 feet in the air, entrance about 2 inches diameter, the size of a single Langstroth deep, facing south, clean, with lemongrass oil as an attractant.

 

Shrews will pull the heads off and suck out the juice. Not so likely to build nests as they hunt almost continuously. Moving hives in cold can cause the cluster to drop and scatter. Split clusters in both? hmmmm! Each part then falls below critical mass. They can't muster the energy to jack up the cluster temperature to get heat momentum to move onto new stores.

Consulation is you have drawn comb ready for some new bees to go to work on!

Sorry to hear that your first shot was a dud!

 

Lee Comments Inline
There were several contributing factors here I think and some interesting findings:

• In both nucs, there were two small clusters, the bees appear to have split for some reason. The colonies were small when they were whole, split I don't think they stood a chance. I don't know why they split, but it could have been related to the move in cold weather. Just taking a wild stab here. IMO NO
• Both had small patches of brood, about 3" in diameter. The warm weather we had leading up to the move (right after the Solistice) must have led them to begin some brood rearing. this in Normal
• The bees did not starve and freeze overnight during the warm days (or it's unlikely) - so the "activity" had to have been robbing. The frames did show the tell-tale signs of that. It's interesting because I didn't think the area was going to be a decent bee area, but someone has bees - or there are some in the hedge somewhere. That gives me hope for swarm-trapping. if robbed by a larger hive , they could be the "killer" of the hive, NUCs can be orderves for big hives
• I was going to do a wash on the bees in the bottom but got side-tracked. All of the bees were missing heads. Panic thinking led me to worry about Asian Giant Hornets - unlikely due to my geographical location and the time of the year, of course. Some additional research led me to find that mice will eat the heads of the bees. Strange, one would think the fat body would be more nutritious for them, but whatever. I can't say I saw any other signs of mice, there were no nesting materials, and no severe chewing of the comb. If you crossed your eyes you might be able to believe some of the "robbing" was from mice, but maybe a 2" patch. There was no pollen in the frames and there was no honey down low. Another lesson learned there- the "guards" I had were not effective. Missing heads can be a schrew, they can kill a NUC in a month or so.

I learned a lot from this despite my disappointment:

• I need better plans for mice yes
• Despite academically knowing bees will not reverse directions to get to feed, I saw that in action. There were two frames of honey but they went the other direction. Next year I'll make sure they are surrounded by stores and re-arrange as needed if I get a warm day. not in agreement here with either point
• If I use these insulated nucs again to overwinter, I'll make sure all four bottom vents, as well as the top vents, are closed. Any argument about how much ventilation is needed is moot if your bees are freezing. this place is "warm" by my standards, and you have poly, they did not "freeze" unless you had all the vents open.
• A small cluster that might winter okay in a warmer climate is not going to make it in the plains. I'll combine without emotion. 6 frame NUC there, should be fine in poly
• The above will help create a warmer interior where they can break cluster to get to feed/candy. If they can't break cluster to feed, that candy is going to last a really long time. Bees do not need to break cluster to get to feed Bees should have contact with feed always, my bees do not break cluster for weeks at a time.

IMO the mid winter move and the spit, was > 50% of the "kill" the schrew/mouse and the robbing could have been the rest. you should wash the bees just to see if mites were present. they may have lets with the robbers.
If they were robbed , trapping should work. If there is a big yard close, over wintering NUC's may not be an option.

so now you are on the learning curve, full speed ahead, good luck with you future bees.

GG

 

"Never let a failure go to waste." I learned from it. I mean it sucks to have the loss, but I did learn. I have no doubt the move/split/loving helped cause the loss. We mentioned that it was a ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't thing in another thread. If I would have re-arranged the stores they had that might have saved them, but we'll never know now.

No opportunity to do a wash because I cleaned out the boxes while I was out there. Next time I'll have both a camera and remember to do a wash.

I'm not sure there are shrews around here, but there could be I guess. I know they could be anywhere, but I've not seen the cat bring any to the door as he does the mice. I did just learn though that shrews are venomous? That's crazy.

I was just checking out the cut sheet I have for swarm traps. Definitely going to be putting them out.

ETA: Does a 3/8" hole keep the shrews out? I have some sheet metal I was going to form into reducers/mouseguards.

 

ETA: Does a 3/8" hole keep the shrews out?

Maybe in America even shrews are big, but here we have 1/4" gap on mouse/shrew guards. Btw. Small colonies could have problem with nosema.

 

There were several contributing factors here I think and some interesting findings:

• In both nucs, there were two small clusters, the bees appear to have split for some reason. The colonies were small when they were whole, split I don't think they stood a chance. I don't know why they split, but it could have been related to the move in cold weather. Just taking a wild stab here.
• Both had small patches of brood, about 3" in diameter. The warm weather we had leading up to the move (right after the Solistice) must have led them to begin some brood rearing.

So, that mid-winter brood was what caused the cluster separations.
One cluster was warming the brood.
The other cluster was sitting on the honey.
While it was warm, the bees would go and get the honey and return to the brood.
As the cold snap came, the bees clustered up where they were on the honey or on the brood - thus the original clusters split into two.
The clusters being below the critical mass - they each froze separately.

Mice/schrews - just a scavenging opportunity - don't think they killed your bees.

In fact, this past November I fixed this exact situation in one hive - the cluster separation.
I had honey frames set outside of the follower board in one of the long hives.
It was a warm weather and the bees were drying those frame and moving the honey to the nest.
Well, a cold snap came and about 2 frames worth of bees got stuck on those honey frames and just stayed there.
Incidentally, I was doing my late November checking and found the issue and fixed it - else the two frames worth of bees would most likely eventually freeze (while the mother-cluster would become weakened a lot).

Basically, brooding in the winter is a very risky proposition.
Especially so in the configuration on hand:

• initially small clusters just about the critical mass - where you can not afford anymore attrition
• horizontal separation of the food and the brood (brood located just under the food is much better).

On the picture I am pasting here, most likely the "red" circle where one of your clusters was.
The "green" circle is where the secondary cluster most likely was.

One way to prevent the un-timely brooding is to, indeed, keep the bees as cool as possible (especially in the radically swinging winter weather).
Overly insulated hive may need to be additionally ventilated.

 

So, that mid-winter brood was what caused the cluster separations.
One cluster was warming the brood.
The other cluster was sitting on the honey.
While it was warm, the bees would go and get the honey and return to the brood.
As the cold snap came, the bees clustered up where they were on the honey or on the brood - thus the original clusters split into two.
The clusters being below the critical mass - they each froze separately.

I suspect GregB got it here. I have had several smaller hives do this and freeze away from food when plenty of food was available when they had small patches of brood.

 

The bees did not starve and freeze overnight during the warm days (or it's unlikely) - so the "activity" had to have been robbing. The frames did show the tell-tale signs of that.

Unconvinced.
FYI - the winter bees uncap and use the honey just the same as the robbing bees - no difference.
Your frames do not show anything conclusive in that regard.
In fact, the wintering bees do exactly that - they "rob" their own honey stores.
They are not concerned at the moment with the comb maintenance/fixing.

 

All robbed frames I have seen in my limited experience have destroyed comb. None of my overwintered hives have comb like that inside of them..

 

There's a blizzard out there so I'm not going out to take pics. I will say that last year in the teaching years we saw robbed frames and I saw that same ragged appearance in these combs in places. While I realize there's not much more we can do when it's snowing than to critique a person's description, you can either believe me or not right now because it's too cold to prove a point.

 

It is fine - if robbed than robbed and call it then - I simply pointed out that the flying bees were not necessarily robbers (robbers are a convenient default theory, usually).
Ultimately, the robbers just scavenged the remnants, not killed the bees.

To me it was far more interesting to dissect the dead body and see what may have killed it.

 

LB, I think you've made some great observations and learned a lot. Lessons like this are always hard, and I'm still learning too.

May I suggest spraying the combs with Bt to kill any moths that may invade the comb?

 

May I suggest spraying the combs with Bt to kill any moths that may invade the comb?

We're on the same wavelength - I just ordered some.

I was going to use it in my swarm traps, but there's no harm in using it on these too. They will, of course, also spend some time in the freezer.

 

I'd discarded that initially, because the bees were head-first in a different area. Then I realized the bees on the brood wouldn't be able to be on the brood and in the cells at the same time, so I now see the error of my thinking.

 

Ah ... no. We were 0 yesterday, a balmy 10 this morning but there are snow flurries.

First packages are scheduled to arrive in EOM March, we'll see.

 

The guy should have never sold/given you any in the Winter like that, Spring is the time to start out.

 

The guy was not at fault, and they were given to me. He had luck overwintering like that and thought I would be excited to get a jump start on things. I was excited and I did learn. So, there was a lot of value there, even if they didn't make it.

 

Lee, this gets me thinking of a sort of unwritten rule in my personal beekeeping style: Don't mess with the bees in winter.

I know you were given these bees in the winter and it's a different situation, you didn't have a chance to prep them ahead of time.

But going forward this may inspire you to get your bees prepared for winter starting in August.
Lots of honey and pollen.
Kill the mites.
Good queen, she'll give you a good population of winter bees.
Tighten up the inserts in the SBB.
Kill the mites again.
Nucs I strap down so they don't get knocked over somehow.
A little shelter from wind can come in handy.

It's all basic stuff. And honestly, you don't need to overthink it.

Good luck in the spring. Let us know how it goes for you.

 

a sort of unwritten rule in my personal beekeeping style: Don't mess with the bees in winter.

It's good advice. I posted asking a question shortly after getting them and the general consensus was the same, however, folks also noted that if they are out of food they will die as well so it was a bit of a catch-22. I knew there was a risk, but it "seemed like" I should take it. I'm not certain I could have had a different outcome, frankly, but you never know.

 

Not mice but shrews will do that. Mice go for the honey and the combs.