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Re: EZ Bee automatic flow

Their fairy tale is very cleverly designed for the intended audience; lots of appeal to emotion and light on facts!
 

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Re: EZ Bee automatic flow

They have put a lot of lipstick on that pig. :D

Alex
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

It's a virtual certainty the Chinese ones will not be the same quality as genuine ones, and that could extend to the type of plastic used.
Mention the F word and a spurited debate ensues. I have one from China and I had the same small issues that people complain about with the ones from Australia. The dovetail joints required a little sanding and filing to make them fit, took maybe 30 mins. I had read enough about real Flow roof leaking so I put metal flashing under the pitched roof which later I ended up just tossing it and going to standard telescoping lid. If you dont think real Flow roof leaks, Google it, Flow had hundreds of complaints to where they had to put out recommendations how to fix them. In Flow s own assembly video, the guy is hand tooling the joints on the box. After listening to the Flow followers telling me about the plastic, I took a sample to a testing lab near me and I have a 3 page certified test report, IT IS food grade plastic. Then it just comes down to----do yiu want to pay 700 plus shipping or 368 delivered shipping included and there is even a better oackage than that on e bay or Amazon. A guy in USA pisted his was 969.00 delivered. I cant justify that price. I recommend, if you want the Flow method, buy ONLY the flow frames, but NOT from Flow Australia and modify a standard Langstroth box to accomodate the flow frames. Flow frames are about 3/8 inch or so longer than std Langstroth length. I only have the one, just to try it, my other 4 hives are Langstroth and if they fill the Fliw supers and it works well, I can add Flow supers to any of my boxes. My boxes will all take Flow frames and for my other 4 hives, I just glued a shim in each end so it catches std Langstroth frames
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

How much does that test cost and who did it?
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

After reading through all these posts on the FH here on BS and on the Flow Forum and sifting through the pros and cons, I believe it is all about the money for the originators of this and everyone fell in line to get this great "invention". Giving them the benefit if the doubt (temporarily I have to say) they are probably nice guys but when it comes to money, niceness can fly away like a swarm. A novelty to be sure; attracting people to beekeeping who KNOW NOTHING about beekeeping, easy way out, etc., to serious beekeepers who want to try something new. We are all beekeepers and are serious about taking care of honey bees. We aren't stupid, these FH guys are beekeepers too and had to know how this would affect the beekeeping world, and they aren't stupid either, so i think this pretty much sums it up. I have my own experience with a FH owner and now I am trying to nurse his colony back to health (a solar fence that a cat could knock down located in bear country, which a bear did take out twice). So kudos to an entrepreneur but BAD medicine to those who take advantage of the innocent.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

After reading through all these posts on the FH here on BS and on the Flow Forum and sifting through the pros and cons, I believe it is all about the money for the originators of this and everyone fell in line to get this great "invention".
You actually read through 2,200+ posts? :eek: Whats next, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?:D
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

It was a Flow ad that got me started reading about bees and to me having 5 hives, all are Langstroth. I have a knock off Flow Super and will put it on and see what happens, not the correct time to put it on yet.
A guy that lives near me, thought he could just buy 7 Flow Frames and put bees directly on them.
I have lived and worked in Australia twice, they have a very high cost of living and that is what you are paying for. It cost 2.50 for one 300 ml Coke if you can even find one at that price, 50 dollars for bacon n eggs for 2, and they have 46% income tax.
Flow Australia can starve to death before they ever see an order from me
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

So how much did the test cost and who did it?
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

The test was 75 USD done by a testing lab in Bangkok. I am from Boston but have lived in Thailand for 11 years. It is an easy test. They place a small sample in a Mass Spectrometer and it burns it and the computer prints an analysis.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

What is the procedure called? I would like to google up a place to do it where I am but not sure what the search words are. What part of the plastic did you break off to get tested?
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I Googled material testing labs in Bangkok, then E mailed a few to ask if they could perform the test, the first 3 replied they do not do the test, then I tried a few more and found one that can do it. Many labs are only equipped to test materials for construction and manufacturing.
What country do you live in?
Use telephone book or internet to find testing labs near you and then tell them you want to verify if a plastic is one of the 7 kinds of plastic considered food grade.
Most food containers are virgin HDPE High Density Poly-ethylene, the others are forsandwich bags, shampoo bottles, I forget now, it was over 6 months ago I read about this.
Find a lab and ask whizzed sample they need.
The Bee Farm here where I get my bees was given one by Flow Australia for them to try, but with over 2000 hives, not cost effective for them. When I was there, I saw a Flow frame in many pieces and asked for a piece, I gave the lab a piece about 6 inches long by 2 inches wide but they only need a small piece to sample. I will try to find my report and post it, I think it's in a file cabinet.
I only bothered testing it because........at that time, I was on the Flow Hive Forum and when I said I had one from China, they were telling me to throw it away, it was junk and the plastic was poison.........all without ever seeing one or knowing anything about what I had.
I understand their anger, if I spent 10 yrs developing something only to have it copied, I would not like it either. I didn't start out to buy a knock off, the first place I looked, didn't ship to Thailand, but the second place did, at first I didn't even know it was not Flow.........
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I'll check out what we have here.

Chinese fakes are starting to appear in my country, people wanting a cheaper flowhive. Sounds like you got lucky but there's no guarantees, and the competitiveness and profit drive of Chinese manufacturing leads things towards the lowest denominator. There has also been a number of scandals here with some pretty poisonous stuff coming in cheap Chinese imports, for example lead in childrens toys, asbestos in fittings. Huge damage was done to the reputation of the NZ milk industry when Chinese agents added melamine to NZ branded baby formula so they could dilute it, some babies died plus thousands of babies permanently damaged.

Our own clothes washer was recalled by the shop when they found some non spec dodgy materials in it.

If I was going to eat the honey, I'd get the comb from Australia.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

You actually read through 2,200+ posts? :eek: Whats next, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?:D
Jim I didn't say it only took me a day! :) Next isn't the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich ( even though I do enjoy reading a big fat book) it's U of M Journeyman class:eek::( Very intimidating.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

The test was 75 USD done by a testing lab in Bangkok. I am from Boston but have lived in Thailand for 11 years. It is an easy test. They place a small sample in a Mass Spectrometer and it burns it and the computer prints an analysis.
Problem with the method you describe is that while it will tell you if the majority of the material is PE it will not tell you what additives/softeners/releasers are used. Pyrolyzing plastic and sending it through a MS will give you relative carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, chlorine, and sulfur composition which will allow one to determine if the plastic is PE, PP, PVC, PPS, etc but won't give minor organic components.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

Problem with the method you describe is that while it will tell you if the majority of the material is PE it will not tell you what additives/softeners/releasers are used. Pyrolyzing plastic and sending it through a MS will give you relative carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, chlorine, and sulfur composition which will allow one to determine if the plastic is PE, PP, PVC, PPS, etc but won't give minor organic components.
Tsk tsk........then I guess you better not buy one then, I could not possible care less about it
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

Ok. Just pointing out that the method you're using isn't going to tell you whether or not the plastic is food grade or not. Do with it what you will.
 

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Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

Issue I see if the plastic is not genuine food grade or has unhealthy additives, is that the cell size is small meaning that while the bees are storing and maturing the honey, there is a lot of contact between plastic and honey.

Some people will eat anyway unconcerned, and unlikely to immediately drop dead. But it will add to the general load of carcinogens and other nasties that we consume now.
 

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Re: EZ Bee automatic flow

I had thought the austrailian invention was being made in china from the very beginning. Did I get this wrong? I do know that some manufactuers have set up plants in china and then the chineese used those plants to make the exact item as the origional one that out side owners had set up and sold it with out those owners. Not a real copycat but the real thing that someone had basically given them even if they didn't mean to.
 
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