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Hello , I have never tried foundationless frames b-4 ,but I wanted to try to get a few with our sourwood flow, mainly for my father for his birthday. Well we ended up with several filled and capped frames and were going to try to extract several in our new extractor , now I am asking for some suggestions on what you might think is a good way to do so with out blowing them out. Any help , Thanks
 

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I mis-spoke....tangential extraction gives the frames more support...so with that extractor, you can start spinning 3 frames at a time tangentially...slowly...flip...spin again slowly...flip a couple times...once you get the weight off the frame, you can spin radially to finish...
That is how I would handle it.... Fun sticky times! :D
 

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I have cut 1/2 inch pieces of hardware cloth to size that fits over each side of the frame. This makes a sandwich of the frame between two pieces of hardware cloth. Two rubber bands to hold it in place. Extra time but keeps the comb from blowing out. Second year you won't have to do this.
 

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I will bet it very much the same as putting 3-6 rubber bands on the frame.
 

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If you have the ability to spin radially why would you do anything else?
Radial extraction puts centrifugal force from the inside out...side to side with no support to the comb. Tangentially, the comb is resting against the wire frame of the basket, giving it pretty balanced support across the comb. When I have a frame that starts to bow, I put it aside, and extract tangentially. I can count on two fingers the number of blow outs I have had...and that is when my husband was "helping" spinning, and I was out pulling more frames... (Yeah...he probably did a "How fast can this thing go???" kinda thing....) ;)
 

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On a tangential extractor the honey from one side of the comb is blocked from being expelled. This is why you have to go slow and keep flipping the frame in stages to get the other side cleared. On a radial extractor the bottom of the frame is toward the center where the force is the least. The top of the frame is the strongest and has the most support. If one were to take the same care by supporting the bottom comb so it can't wag to the side and start off slow and gradually build up speed you can extract the frames without the flipping procedure. It would be my hunch that the most of the damage to foundationless comb is done in the uncapping stage. The extractor just displays the dynamic results of uncapping.
 

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Our extractor is a radial {BM 9 FRAME}
I had blow out when I tried extracting my frames radially. When I switched to do them tangentially I hardly ever get blow out. My extractor (maxant) has a nice basket that supports the comb tangentially. No matter what you do slower is better to start with foundationless. In the future if you wire with metal or fishing line it might make extracting a little easier.
 

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I had a few blowouts with my homemade two frame extractor mainly due to my cordless drill spinning it too fast.
I lined the face of the basket with chicken wire and pretty much fixed my problem. Now I use a right angle drill that I can control the speed better and haven't blown any out this year. Even though several were new brood frames and were only attached at the top.
 

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Bees in Miami has it right. I run foundationless frames, first year and extracted using a Maxant 3 frame extractor. I find the key is to keep the pressure low by flipping often. A bit more work, but nice results.

I also find the hot capping knives did more damage than the extracting. I am sure I was not doing it right, but it pulled the comb off the frame on some of the thick stuff. Finally just used a comb scratcher by itself - more work, but I really was trying not to ruin the comb.
 

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You are talking about deep frames? I'm very interested in this subject too as I'm using unwired foundationless deep frames.
 

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I also find the hot capping knives did more damage than the extracting.
A cold knife would be worse. Like I say the damage can occur in the uncapping stage. I think JoeM has it right support the bottom comb some way somehow even in the uncapping stage. The more you handle the frame the more likely you are to damage it enough that it blows out in the extractor.
 

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We extract unwired foundation less deeps routinely and have very few problems. We use a tangential.

I also flip back and forth a couple of times at the beginning of the cycle to 8 load the bulk of the weight.

Interestingly, a friend in Hawaii reported someone having good success by un capping and completely draining one side before un capping the Other side....The idea being that the cappings add stiffness and strength to the comb.

Deknow
 

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As Bees-in-Miama said, "S.L.O.W.L.Y. I think some large rubber bands over the frames and a slow start would be the ticket. You can add speed as the honey flows and lightens the load which in turn reduces the centrifugal force. I think it is workable. Someone at our local bee club told about using the rubber bands and how they worked. Extraction is your reward for doing a good job, so go slow and enjoy it.
 

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You are talking about deep frames? I'm very interested in this subject too as I'm using unwired foundationless deep frames.
I helped friends extract yesterday with a new Maxant extractor. We did 3 deep frames 1 of which had foundation, the other 2 were foundationless. not a blowout to bee seen anywhere.
 
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