Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Today I attempted to make a nuc. I had a queen to pick up that I'd ordered before I found a queen in the hive I thought I needed her for. When I picked her up, I also purchased a new hive that I assembled, painted and put a hive stand together for once I arrived back home- not to mention some minor landscaping to add it to my apiary section of my back yard...

Hours later:
I took a frame of pollen and a frame of honey from one of my hives, then I took 2 frames of brood and nurse bees from my other hive (I have 2 "established" hives).
I had the box sitting out, open, and no bees were flying. I thought I'd try putting the queen cage in there to see their reaction. To me, they seemed eager to be around her.

I had read that you could do two types of introductions, direct and indirect. I have installed packages, so I am quite familiar with the indirect approach. I thought it would be safe to do the direct intro, since they seemed so eager.

That, my friends, is where the failure comes in.
I pulled the cork, and she and the attendants started coming out. She starts piping away, and somehow, chaos ensued.

I tried to keep track of her while there was a mini Braveheart battle going on and finally, I saw her on the screen (bottom board). I had the entrance reducer on, and ran to grab my frame hanger. I lost her again.
I pulled out each frame, and put it on the hanger. Still didn't see her, and was hoping she was in the box still. I got the 4th frame on the hanger, then the whole thing FELL OVER! the frames fell on each other, taking the hive body with it, falling on top of the already totally confused bees while I'm still looking for the queen.
She is gone. That is certain.

So I scooped up my poor tortured nucleus and put them in their newly assembled, painted and landscaped hive. I sprayed them with some sugar syrup as an added suffering bonus. Since my latest cure-all is Pseudo Queen, I threw some of that in there with them too. Why not? I closed them up, put a feeder on as I would treat a package, and stuffed some grass in the entrance so it is not so big, as they are all so young.

I went into the house, poured a glass of wine, and ordered a new queen.
Now I'm here, Beesource! :cry::w::v:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,208 Posts
Welcome...misery loves company...you are not the first,nor will you be the last to have an epic bee day! Enjoy your wine. You never know when you check your hive tomorrow the elusive Queen may be there. Have sympathy for her...she had no wine:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
Wow, just wow. Sounds exactly like something that would happen to me. Hope all goes well when the new queen arrives. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,404 Posts
Did you eat some cheese too? LOL

There are 2 kinds of beekeepers. Those that admit they have done stupid things, and the other type are liars.

I could tell you 20 stories about stuff I've done that was stupid. That would probably cover the past monts worth of stupid beekeeping stuff. I figure if a person can't laugh at themselves, then somethings wrong with them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for the kind words, they are much appreciated.
The thing that I should catch on to is that the smart me is always there in the back of my mind, saying, "do you really think you should do that?" And stupid likes to do all the decision-making.
Oh- and neither are the expert.
I have read a lot, and have information-overloaditis.
Practically everything that has happened so far as for swarming... And many other things I have read about, I somehow never thought it would ever pertain to me. Hmmm.

Yup, Swarmed!(that was a few weeks ago, thought would never happen to me) Yup, really fouled up (today, while trying to make good use of my situation)!
So grateful for this place!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Wow, just wow. Sounds exactly like something that would happen to me. Hope all goes well when the new queen arrives. Good luck.
Thanks! Moments like that could not possibly be made up. Perfect storm of ridiculousness. I hope the new queen ships out tomorrow. This will be the slowest introduction known to bees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,953 Posts
The important point is being missed.
Direct release is only recommended when the queen has been with a package or caged in a colony for a few days at least....or for a virgin queen.
No one ever suggested direct releasing a mated queen into unrelated bees without a period of acclimation.

There is nothing mysterious here. Careful reading and understanding of 'whys is important if one is going to learn via forum. A glads of wine or something stronger is certainly warranted.

Deknow
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Jamie when something like that happens best thing to do is nothing!Collect youself, regain your composure(and dignity)leave the nuc open,look at the ground fo a ball of bees(yes good chance the queen is in there(maybe not a good chance but a chance)next,watch the behavior of the nuc are bees gathering in it or on the ground or somewhere else.They'll sometimes give you a hint to where she is.I really am looking forward to meeting you I like your sense of humor!First time I made up nucs I was on number 4 when I thought heck I know what I'm doing ,wrong said mister rock as he tripped me!Boom bee chaos,got my act together resumed what I was doing and only let mister rock trip me # more times!Talking stupid I only moved mister rock 4 times just to trip over him 4 times!I couldn't wait to tell my brothers cause I did owe them a good laugh(more stupid things I did oh yes!)Brad Bee definitely hit the nail on the head!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Direct release is only recommended when the queen has been with a package or caged in a colony for a few days at least....or for a virgin queen.
No one ever suggested direct releasing a mated queen into unrelated bees without a period of acclimation.
Yes, I will be leaving the whole direct release thing alone- for ever.

First time I made up nucs I was on number 4 when I thought heck I know what I'm doing ,wrong said mister rock as he tripped me!Boom bee chaos,got my act together resumed what I was doing and only let mister rock trip me # more times!Talking stupid I only moved mister rock 4 times just to trip over him 4 times!I couldn't wait to tell my brothers cause I did owe them a good laugh
Thanks Slow Drone, guess we all have our less-than-glamerous moments!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
Not Epic Failure, definitely a learning time. No worries we all learn. I have direct released queens many many times with much success. I have also untintentionally killed bees many many times. Good luck and don't let it get you down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
So, I just found out that the queen I ordered won't be here till the 13th. That'll be 7 days queenless and with only 4 frames in there, 2 of brood and 2 of pollen/honey. There are 4 more empty ones. I just put together a new hive for them, I don't have them in a smaller box.
I have a feeder on there, but they aren't going near it. Also, there is no activity outside the hive at all. I peeked in on them, and they are seemingly ok in there. Ideas?

Maybe I should build a nuc box?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Remember if the frames have eggs or larvae the right age they'll end up with queen cells.What is your main goal?Let us know and will help develop a plan for you!Hang in there bud:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,323 Posts
Reminds me of an episode of Keystone Cops! lol
A bout of bad luck sounds like what you had. Hiving bees in a newly painted hive is not a good idea. Bees have a very keen sense of smell and paint fumes isn't one of their favorites. A couple weeks of air time before hiving is good.
Glad to hear you learned from your mistakes. Give it another shot and update us when it all goes right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,542 Posts
Too bad Jamie. I am continuously learning that haste makes waste. You're not alone.
 

·
Vendor
Local feral survivors in eight frame medium boxes.
Joined
·
54,108 Posts
>I had read that you could do two types of introductions, direct and indirect.

As deknow pointed out, with a package that has been with the queen, yes. With a new split or an established colony, no. The only recommended practice is some kind of slow release, which would usually be either candy in a cage or a push in cage and even then I would not put the queen in until they have been queenless a minimum of 2 hours, in an outyard that is a long drive, or overnight in my home yard where I don't have to drive. If you immediately put a queen in a cage in a hive that had a queen a few minutes ago, they may kill her in the cage. The cage does not guarantee her safety, it just slows things down. And releasing her directly is an even worse idea. In some of the old books they do some things that are no longer practiced by anyone I know, such as dipping the queen in flour and direct releasing or dipping her in honey and direct releasing, but I don't know of anyone doing these anymore. And those were after they had been queenless for four days... (see Alley, Doolittle etc.)
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesoldbooks.htm

If you're not making mistakes you're not learning anything.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslearning.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I feel your pain, I was trying to get all my bees out of a package and accidentally slammed down the box too hard on one of the old drawn combs to the side --- and the wooden bracer that holds the frame onto the side broke, and the frame collapsed to the bottom floor--- had to keep rolling and I'm hoping for the best, these things happen, there's so much to remember and be careful of and all these little stinging crawling flying ladies don't always make it easier!!

Bravo to the wine :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The important point is being missed.
Direct release is only recommended when the queen has been with a package or caged in a colony for a few days at least....or for a virgin queen.
No one ever suggested direct releasing a mated queen into unrelated bees without a period of acclimation.

There is nothing mysterious here. Careful reading and understanding of 'whys is important if one is going to learn via forum. A glads of wine or something stronger is certainly warranted.

Deknow
The indirect/direct release that I read about was not something I read in the forum, It was from the Beekeeper's Handbook. The author does state that is should be tried on a limited basis until you have a sense of it's effectiveness… I do love the book, and am not knocking it in any way.
I do not solely read about beekeeping here in the forum, but I sure learn a lot here. No matter what I read in one of my beekeeping books, much of it is random knowledge until I am faced with a new challenge with the bees and try to figure out what to do, then somehow I've forgotten everything I've read :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
>That'll be 7 days queenless and with only 4 frames in there, 2 of brood and 2 of pollen/honey.

In five more days they will have a queen.
So, I should just cancel that queen order.
That's what got me into this mess in the first place! My other hive (which is established) requeened itself, and I thought I'd expand because she was already ordered!

As deknow pointed out, with a package that has been with the queen, yes. With a new split or an established colony, no. The only recommended practice is some kind of slow release, which would usually be either candy in a cage or a push in cage and even then I would not put the queen in until they have been queenless a minimum of 2 hours, in an outyard that is a long drive, or overnight in my home yard where I don't have to drive. If you immediately put a queen in a cage in a hive that had a queen a few minutes ago, they may kill her in the cage. The cage does not guarantee her safety, it just slows things down. And releasing her directly is an even worse idea.
It is all so clear now. Definitely learning more this year than the last two!
So grateful for this place!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top