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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello
I am new this year to bee keeping. I started my hive in the spring with a nuc. Moving into and through summer everything seemed OK with the hive had a large expansion of the bee population. Recently I have seen a significant fall in the population and began noticing bees crawling on the ground with shriveled wings. I identified this as DWV. About three weeks ago I was able to finally do a Formic Pro with two pads for 14 days. I currently live in Southern Oregon and the temperatures have been well above 95° all summer which have prevented an earlier treatment for VM. I was forced due to the dropping numbers of worker bees to do a treatment when the temperature was around 90–95° the first few days. This weekend I am planning on opening the hive and surveying the damage after removing the pads last week. If it is not bad at what interval would be recommended for a repeat treatment after the initial treatment. Currently the temperatures are now dropping into the 80 and 70 range
Thank you for any advice I offered
Greg
 

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Hello
I am new this year to bee keeping. I started my hive in the spring with a nuc. Moving into and through summer everything seemed OK with the hive had a large expansion of the bee population. Recently I have seen a significant fall in the population and began noticing bees crawling on the ground with shriveled wings. I identified this as DWV. About three weeks ago I was able to finally do a Formic Pro with two pads for 14 days. I currently live in Southern Oregon and the temperatures have been well above 95° all summer which have prevented an earlier treatment for VM. I was forced due to the dropping numbers of worker bees to do a treatment when the temperature was around 90–95° the first few days. This weekend I am planning on opening the hive and surveying the damage after removing the pads last week. If it is not bad at what interval would be recommended for a repeat treatment after the initial treatment. Currently the temperatures are now dropping into the 80 and 70 range
Thank you for any advice I offered
Greg
If I recall the label says allow 30 days to pass before treating again. You really should do a proper mite count to see if you need to retreat. In the mean time feed them
 

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If you see deformed wings, your hive is in big trouble and might not make it. The recommended approach is to test for mites and treat before the virus is pandemic.
Formic Pro has been tested in above 90F weather and performed well for the testers’ bees in their locations. I hope your bees are not too far infected and pull through. Keep an eye on the queen and brood because the queen can get the virus and need replacing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replys to everyone. Yes obviously the hive is in big trouble the excessively high temperatures have made it difficult to do fumigation treatments. That is why I was wondering if we could do formic acid treatment with two packets closer than a 30 day regiment as we will be going into mid October for the second treatment which is not optimal as the temperatures are now starting to drop into the 60s as of this week from 90s just three weeks ago. Has anyone ever tried a re-treatment with two packets within two weeks of the initial treatment. I will do a VM count. I suspect however and I am concerned that there are still high counts. At this point I am thinking I will just experiment and if the hive makes it great if not we know it is already under significant stress and may not make it through the winter so this is kind of a Hail Mary pass and thought unless anyone would suggest otherwise. I have restarted feeding the day I took the packets out and have been feeding them for the last two weeks. Next week will be about three weeks since I took the packets out. This year was just not a good year with all the excessively high heat and forest fires in the area. Everything in our area from plants to animals have been under a significant amount of stress.
I really appreciate everyone’s thoughts and comments and assistance. Hopefully I can save this hive.
Greg
 

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After the two pad treatment, I would switch to another product. If you are not in the USA, you might be allowed to make an extended release oxalic/glycerin pad with a Swedish sponge, like on scientificbeekeeping.com. That is a long 42 day treatment and more appropriate after your initial knockdown. Or do an oxalic/glycerin dribble. But do mite counts. You will be fine if the mite count is down as long as your bees are not subdued by the virus. I know of no treatment for the virus. Others might have different but valid views.
 

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Hello
I am new this year to bee keeping. I started my hive in the spring with a nuc. Moving into and through summer everything seemed OK with the hive had a large expansion of the bee population. Recently I have seen a significant fall in the population and began noticing bees crawling on the ground with shriveled wings. I identified this as DWV. About three weeks ago I was able to finally do a Formic Pro with two pads for 14 days. I currently live in Southern Oregon and the temperatures have been well above 95° all summer which have prevented an earlier treatment for VM. I was forced due to the dropping numbers of worker bees to do a treatment when the temperature was around 90–95° the first few days. This weekend I am planning on opening the hive and surveying the damage after removing the pads last week. If it is not bad at what interval would be recommended for a repeat treatment after the initial treatment. Currently the temperatures are now dropping into the 80 and 70 range
Thank you for any advice I offered
Greg
I'm sure I will get hate mail but the time is getting short. Formic Acid use in those conditions you mentioned is tantamount to a death sentence to the hive.

IF by chance the queen did survive and you can find uncapped brood or eggs, consider yourself very lucky. As mentioned above, another treatment is highly NOT recommended. If the queen is alive,feed this hive as required and allow it to recover. If you continue to have evidence of a mite problem (highly doubtful), I would NOT use Formic again.

If you want a quick knock down and a follow on kill of the reproductive mites in the capped and emerging brood, I would treat with OAV using a 2 day cycle for 12 treatments. Meaning: every other day for a series of 12 treatments, treat the hive with 4 grams per deep brood box. Depending upon how many hives you are treating, this can be a lot of labor but worth the results in my opinion. When I treat my hives with OAV in this fashion, I can treat about 75 hives in roughly 4 hours using a ProVap EZ 110. Now that Larry has got the 4 gram OA capsules in stock, I think that time will be a good bit less.

If you are not up for the 2 day cycle OAV treatment, if you mite numbers are in check, you can wait until a warm late Fall/Winter day and treat the hive with OAV when they are broodless are at minimum brood. It needs to be on a day that is warm enough for the cluster to open up and hive activity is obvious.

The OAV does not actually kill reproductive mites in the capped brood but treating on a 2 day cycle in my experience will kill nearly all if not all of the mites on newly emerging bees from the brood cells and kill any mites before they can return to another uncapped brood cell. Thus pretty much accomplishing the same thing in a different way. 12 treatments on a 2 day cycle will cover 24 days and cover most if not all of the drones as well if they are still present.

The nice thing about OAV is that within reason, it is nearly impossible to treat your bees with too much OAV. The bees don't like it but they fan the air around inside the hive to dissipate the OAV and it gone unless you have the hive air tight sealed up. Once the OAV is gone, the hive gets back to business like nothing happened.

If OAV is not an option for you, I would go with Apivar. It is gentle and effective but you need to observe closely if it is working as there have been reports of bad batches of Apivar that did not work.

Best of luck and hope your queen is in good shape.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm sure I will get hate mail but the time is getting short. Formic Acid use in those conditions you mentioned is tantamount to a death sentence to the hive.

IF by chance the queen did survive and you can find uncapped brood or eggs, consider yourself very lucky. As mentioned above, another treatment is highly NOT recommended. If the queen is alive,feed this hive as required and allow it to recover. If you continue to have evidence of a mite problem (highly doubtful), I would NOT use Formic again.

If you want a quick knock down and a follow on kill of the reproductive mites in the capped and emerging brood, I would treat with OAV using a 2 day cycle for 12 treatments. Meaning: every other day for a series of 12 treatments, treat the hive with 4 grams per deep brood box. Depending upon how many hives you are treating, this can be a lot of labor but worth the results in my opinion. When I treat my hives with OAV in this fashion, I can treat about 75 hives in roughly 4 hours using a ProVap EZ 110. Now that Larry has got the 4 gram OA capsules in stock, I think that time will be a good bit less.

If you are not up for the 2 day cycle OAV treatment, if you mite numbers are in check, you can wait until a warm late Fall/Winter day and treat the hive with OAV when they are broodless are at minimum brood. It needs to be on a day that is warm enough for the cluster to open up and hive activity is obvious.

The OAV does not actually kill reproductive mites in the capped brood but treating on a 2 day cycle in my experience will kill nearly all if not all of the mites on newly emerging bees from the brood cells and kill any mites before they can return to another uncapped brood cell. Thus pretty much accomplishing the same thing in a different way. 12 treatments on a 2 day cycle will cover 24 days and cover most if not all of the drones as well if they are still present.

The nice thing about OAV is that within reason, it is nearly impossible to treat your bees with too much OAV. The bees don't like it but they fan the air around inside the hive to dissipate the OAV and it gone unless you have the hive air tight sealed up. Once the OAV is gone, the hive gets back to business like nothing happened.

If OAV is not an option for you, I would go with Apivar. It is gentle and effective but you need to observe closely if it is working as there have been reports of bad batches of Apivar that did not work.

Best of luck and hope your queen is in good shape.
I will keep my fingers crossed. Hopefully everything will work out. Unfortunately just a very hot bad year all around. Looks like I will need to be more aggressive throughout the summer in the future in other treatment options.
 

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Best of luck to you and your bees. An important tip to remember when you think about treating your bees for mites next year: When you kill one mite in May, you've also killed every single one of her daughters and granddaughters that you would be fighting that fall. Keeping mite numbers low all year prevents major mite crises like you may be dealing with here.
 
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