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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My question is on overall efficiency of my plan and how re combining the two colonies will go not the actual process of using emergency cells as queens (I understand the pros and cons).

My goal or vision is to requeen my hive late flow to post flow without complete disruption and with a fail safe.

A old beekeeper who I personally knew always repeatedly responded to my questions with a question... do you want bees or honey? I believe I am starting to grasp what he meant. I would like to requeen every year to keep her young and less likely to swarm and also not have to purchase 50 queens or spend time making and them via grafts. I’m a sideliner with a full time job and I’ve decided 50 colonies is enough work just to produce honey.

I plan to use the double screen board when the colony is booming mid to late main flow take old queen and a box from her original double deep configuration and put her above and let the bottom raise their own essentially both are now in singles with supers on bottom below board. If they are successful I then pinch the queen flip entrances around let old foragers From up top with old queen gradually go back down then about a week later put all brood frames back below in a double deep configuration with double screen board removed. If they fail to raise queen either recombine or just give frames of young larvae from top box until they succeed. I believe recombining the hives in this manner would lead to minimal disruption and fighting or am I wrong?
 

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Snelgrove explains it very well. That would be his method 2. Why pinch the old queen? That suggestion is not necessary until you wish to recombine and can be avoided entirely by just removing the board (I would suggest use a newspaper for insurance as I have seen some fighting) and in most cases the young queen takes the crown. This removes the risk of having to wait another month if the bottom fails to mate a queen. You might also sell or donate the year old queen.

I do not know whether the bees above the division board will put honey in the supers below unless you divert the foragers to the bottom.

Except in a couple of imminent swarms, I have left the queen below and raised the new queen above the division board. I am not sure I would want to handle 50 hives this way as the box above the supers is in your face a lot. Lifting off that box and the division board with doors is a chore. Perhaps you are envisioning simple double screen boards without the diversion doors. Snelgrove writes about using the system in something approaching 50 hives but I have not used it with more than 6 or 7 at a time.
 

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My question is on overall efficiency of my plan and how re combining the two colonies will go not the actual process of using emergency cells as queens (I understand the pros and cons).

My goal or vision is to requeen my hive late flow to post flow without complete disruption and with a fail safe.

A old beekeeper who I personally knew always repeatedly responded to my questions with a question... do you want bees or honey? I believe I am starting to grasp what he meant. I would like to requeen every year to keep her young and less likely to swarm and also not have to purchase 50 queens or spend time making and them via grafts. I’m a sideliner with a full time job and I’ve decided 50 colonies is enough work just to produce honey.

I plan to use the double screen board when the colony is booming mid to late main flow take old queen and a box from her original double deep configuration and put her above and let the bottom raise their own essentially both are now in singles with supers on bottom below board. If they are successful I then pinch the queen flip entrances around let old foragers From up top with old queen gradually go back down then about a week later put all brood frames back below in a double deep configuration with double screen board removed. If they fail to raise queen either recombine or just give frames of young larvae from top box until they succeed. I believe recombining the hives in this manner would lead to minimal disruption and fighting or am I wrong?
I have a question for your question: Is there an easy method for making a double screen board that doesn't require all the special entrances, but still gives you the same results? Or are these things as easy to make as they look, and totally worth trying?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wouldn’t discard old queen until I knew new queen was successful and laying. And yes I was planning to keep flipping door to get foragers from top going down into Lower colony to keep population up. Thanks for the suggestions
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
They are easy to make I made 20 in a few hours there are some you tube videos you can easily figure it out
 

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yes I was planning to keep flipping door to get foragers from top going down into Lower colony to keep population up.
that sound like a LOT of trips to the yards
AS does making up 50 double screened boards if you post flow you don't care about the forgers any way, they are just eating stores till they die

the double screen board system is a way to make an early split and maintain honey production and "cheat" the you make bees or honey saying .. I don't see the advantage of it late/post flow.

You gole here seems to be just to preserve the old queen as a backup... why not just take whatever frame you found her on + one of food and put her in a nuc? or queen castle. heck you could likley put her in a 1 frame nuc, or even a mini
when everything is done you would have like 13 4 way castles, pull the dividers and over winter.. no you can take 20% losses and still be at your 50
to me anyway it feels like a lot less work then making all those trips to move the doors and then to find the queens 2x, newspaper combine and then to check that the combine was sucessfull and they didn't kill your new queen...
pull the old queen out and be done with it... you likely could pull a percentage out and pinch the rest based on your past history sucess rate .
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I’m open to doing it now I just figured disrupting during the flow would not be ideal seems like I got it backwards
 

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I wouldn’t discard old queen until I knew new queen was successful and laying. And yes I was planning to keep flipping door to get foragers from top going down into Lower colony to keep population up. Thanks for the suggestions
Did you edit from your original post? Perhaps I misread.
 

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My way of doing the same approximate thing. I find the queen and move the frame she is on and a couple more frames of mixed brood into a hive body and surround those frames with drawn frames or foundation. This needs to be done before swarm cells are established. I replace the frames removed from the parent colony and put on a queen excluder. I then add two medium supers or one deep. Put on another queen excluder and set the queen and her split on top of that. I have an entrance for both top and bottom. Since I am in cold country, I wrap the stack back up.

Eleven or twelve days later if desired, you can harvest spare emergency cells. I like to eliminate all but the best two on the same frame but not necessary to even go in. If you are in a good early flow, it may be necessary to see if you need to add an additional super under the nuc on top and possibly a super on top also.

During the fourth week, I like to tear down the stack and make sure I have a new queen laying. Since twenty percent of the time a colony fails to requeen, you can then move the hivebody with the queen to the bottom of the stack and congratulate yourself for getting by the swarm season and your good honey crop so far. You can then pinch the old queen or take the now nearly full size colony off the stack and put it on its own bottom board.

It is extra work but not prohibitive for hobbyists and energetic sideliners. One old German commercial beek works harder than that with his single hivebody colonies to get his crop.
 

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I have a question for your question: Is there an easy method for making a double screen board that doesn't require all the special entrances, but still gives you the same results? Or are these things as easy to make as they look, and totally worth trying?
A sheet of 3/8 ply wood with a hole or two, 4 inches square or so, screened both sides to exchange hive smells and heat but prevent exchange of queen scent material. That will create conditions for starting of cells. Two strips of wood tapered from nothing to about 3/8" thick at the other end; twenty inches long. They can be placed under the sides of top box to create an entrance either front or back. Those taper strips are handy for any time you want an entrance without drilling a hole in a box. I use that instant reversible entrance system with my Cloake Board too. Two such strips create an emergency hive bottom on any flat surface.

The full featured snelgrove double screened board has a lot more features but far more involved to construct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you have an inner cover you can almost just screen both sides of the hole and you got a double screen maybe just widen that small entrance if desired
 

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My way of doing the same approximate thing. I find the queen and move the frame she is on and a couple more frames of mixed brood into a hive body and surround those frames with drawn frames or foundation. This needs to be done before swarm cells are established. I replace the frames removed from the parent colony and put on a queen excluder. I then add two medium supers or one deep. Put on another queen excluder and set the queen and her split on top of that. I have an entrance for both top and bottom. Since I am in cold country, I wrap the stack back up.

Eleven or twelve days later if desired, you can harvest spare emergency cells. I like to eliminate all but the best two on the same frame but not necessary to even go in. If you are in a good early flow, it may be necessary to see if you need to add an additional super under the nuc on top and possibly a super on top also.

During the fourth week, I like to tear down the stack and make sure I have a new queen laying. Since twenty percent of the time a colony fails to requeen, you can then move the hivebody with the queen to the bottom of the stack and congratulate yourself for getting by the swarm season and your good honey crop so far. You can then pinch the old queen or take the now nearly full size colony off the stack and put it on its own bottom board.

It is extra work but not prohibitive for hobbyists and energetic sideliners. One old German commercial beek works harder than that with his single hivebody colonies to get his crop.
Vance- this is intriguing! Two questions for you:

1) What keeps the colony from swarming with the old queen when it comes time that the new queen is ready to hatch?

2) What else can go wrong? In other words, is this a reliable method of producing new queens?
 

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Mine are made from redwood S4S 2X4 cut 1.5 wide with the inside 3/4" dado-ed out on which to staple the 1/8" mesh. The front extends as a landing board with a 4" wide entrance. Picture is a bait box on top of a piece of plywood. Second picture is two compartment medium depth queen castle division screens. These have a 1" wide entrance for each compartment.



 
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