dominant/ resessive traits?

2681 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Bill Ruble, Jan 21, 2006

wayacoyote

Discussion Starter · Jan 19, 2006

Andrew Schwab reminded me of two things today:
1) I need to do my taxes

2) I have long wondered if there was any literature on which traits among bees are dominant and which are recessive.

Any one know?
Waya

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Joel

· #2 · Jan 19, 2006

(I need to do my taxes)
Thanks, I was trying to avoid thinking of this yearly nightmare until the end of January. I may as well get started too.

I can't find my Hive and the Honey Bee but I think it has section on this.

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Aspera

· #3 · Jan 20, 2006

Most traits of any given species exhibit partial dominence and or a multi gene basis. This is why good breeding requires so much attention to detail. Also, the queen's genetics are more influential even in cases of recessive traits as she is both mother and father to the drones.

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Aspera

· #4 · Jan 20, 2006

I didn't state that clearly...A better way to put it is that drones have no father and have no recessive traits.

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tarheit

· #5 · Jan 20, 2006

Not quite clear yet. They can have recessive traits, but because they only have one set of genes there can't be a corresponding dominate trait that masks the recessive trait.

-Tim

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wayacoyote

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 20, 2006

Right, Tim. I think what Aspera is saying is that they can't carry "ressive taits" unexpressed. I'm thinking what you are saying is that they can Have the resessive trait, and it is in their offspring that it becomes resessed and unexpressed but still carried in the population.

Waya

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Michael Bush

· #7 · Jan 20, 2006

Just to be clear. A recessive trait is when a DIPLOID organism has a pair of genes for each trait and only one is expressed. A Drone is a HAPLOID organism that only has one gene for each of those traits and it is always expressed becuase it's the only one.

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wayacoyote

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 20, 2006

True, Michael and an unfertilized egg is also haploid, but the result of a haploid sperm with a haploid egg will result in a diploid organism.
so help me with the wording here then. I'm trying to ask about recessive genes/alleals that when in a diploid organism will be recessive or dominant.

As an example: workers are diploid and do, well, the work. the Drones don't secrete wax, collect propolis, or prime broodnests, etc... however, they may carry the genes for these traits. Once they mate with a virgin queen who is herself diploid, her haploid egg combines with his haploid sperm resulting in a new organism with a mixture of genes. Some traits, as i understand it, carried within the genotype of the new organism will be ressessive and some will be dominant.
As a hypothetical example: the fertilized eggs might carry genes for reduced propolizing and genes for increased propolizing. Which will be dominant?
going back to mendels early experiments, he found that certain colors in flowers of specific plants are recessive and others dominant.

Thanks,
Waya

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Aspera

· #9 · Jan 20, 2006

Some drones are diploid organisms, but this only occurs if the drone has two copies of the same sex allele.

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Aspera

· #10 · Jan 20, 2006

I geuss that I should also add that diploid drones are something of a rarity in healthy outbred colonies.

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Michael Bush

· #11 · Jan 21, 2006

>Some drones are diploid organisms, but this only occurs if the drone has two copies of the same sex allele.
>I geuss that I should also add that diploid drones are something of a rarity in healthy outbred colonies.

I have not been able to find anyone who will say that diploid drone eggs are viable. I've found several sources who say they are not. In other words the sex alleles may say this egg is a drone, but the diploid nature does not allow it to make it to maturity. Perhaps we'll never know since the workers clean them out anyway.

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Bill Ruble

· #12 · Jan 21, 2006

Well, I thought the actual question was what genes are dominat and what is recessive. I have read that the Cordovan queens cary recessive gene for yellow color. That is a good way to trace your bee breeding to see if she has mated with other races. Her offspring would no longer be the true yellow and you would know.

I think there are a couple genes responsible for hygenic behavior that r also recessive. or exhibit partial dominence. Other recessives are different colored eyes, wing lingths ect.

To many people these visable recessives are of no consequence (sp) but they can be good markers to see what is happening as far as open mating is concerned. I would not want wing length or eye color diffances in my bees, the yellow color of cardovins on the other hand can be nice to work with for reasons above. It can help you determin just how isolate you really are from other colonies.

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