Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
... if so, how much shorter?

I'm asking this because I've read in a romanian manual that you should complete the reserves before 15th of August, so that the bees that winter will not to be affected by the process. To me this seems ridiculous.
My queens stopped laying by the end of August and I'm pretty sure that even if I were to feed before 15th of August most of the wintering bees would have contributed to transfering the sugar into the frames. I fed in September and I still have tons of bees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,646 Posts
It can shorten their lives if the feeder is set up wrong and drowns them.

It can prolong their lives considerably if they would otherwise have starved and it can also boost bee numbers by stimulating them if that is what you want. If the plan is more bees, pollen supply also has to be considered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks.
Fortunatelly I live in an area with abundance of pollen. I hope I will never have to feed artificial pollen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,750 Posts
Feeding in bulk, so great quantities at once, wears the bees out, that is true.. In late summer, August, this is not a bad thing, because all the old bees die off and since they die in the fields, lots of illnesses are prevented this way. Bees go into winter with less diseases.

Late feeding stimulates brood rearing and this lets varroa thrive. So late feeding should be avoided in hives that were founded the year before.

On the other hand you have - as you observed - tons of bees in late autumn when feeding late.

The standard in Germany is to feed in two bulky batches. Right after the last honey harvest and at the end of August. Some modern professionals feed in three-four smaller batches instead. They sort of trickle the feed into the hives (exaggerating here) to keep the brood rearing going. And at the end of September they fill up the rest. But those beekeepers usually take away all brood after the last harvest and they also requeen and let the bees draw lots of fresh comb. By taking away the capped brood and treating the same time they hit varroa very hard and thus late feeding can be done without the danger of wrecking the hives.

So if you go for late feeding, be sure you control varroa by the one way or the other. A simple summer treatment will not be enough if you artificially extend the brooding season into late autumn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I do mite tests and treat. I find Randy Olivers site very useful :) Thanks.
Late feeding in my case didn't result in later brood rearing. At the end of August I couldn't find any more eggs and I was worried that I've lost the queens wich was true in one case(requened and OK but less numbers). However I found some brood later on in November as the weather was unusually warm for that time.

Anyway I think feeding heavy syrup(2:1) in large amounts doesn't stimulate brood rearing, at least that's what I've read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
:) No, I haven't treated at that time.

I treated later using OAV and had some hundreds dead. I definetly can say that the treatment worked in autumn(did jar sampling and sticky board to test the efficiency as for me it was a completely new stuff). I checked with two local beekeepers and it seems that in my area this is the time when brood rearing shuts down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,794 Posts
I have heard that sugar water shortens the life of the bee. But then I heard foraging does also. Yesterday there was a thread that says that being in the presence of brood also shortens the life of a bee. I know starvation will. The question forming in my mind is what doesn't?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How come? You said there is plenty of pollen during that time? Pollen plus feeding - and the bees shut down brood rearing?
Not in late August. We have good pollen flow until begining of August. The last big flow comes from Rudbeckia Lacianata (hope it's correct name).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,646 Posts
But those beekeepers usually take away all brood after the last harvest and they also requeen and let the bees draw lots of fresh comb. By taking away the capped brood and treating the same time they hit varroa very hard and thus late feeding can be done without the danger of wrecking the hives.
Well that's pretty interesting Bernhard, how exactly does this work? What do they do with the brood they remove, and how do the bees build new comb, natural comb, or foundation? How much brood is in the hives at that time, and also what do they treat with, OA?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
At the end of August I couldn't find any more eggs and I was worried that I've lost the queens wich was true in one case(requened and OK but less numbers). However I found some brood later on in November as the weather was unusually warm for that time.
The majority of our bees are often completely broodless from mid to late August until late September (good time for quick mite treatment) when they start brooding again on the ivy flow, some then have brood all through winter if it is mild, they can also collect pollen all through winter if weather conditions are suitable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,750 Posts
What do they do with the brood they remove
They collect it in brood boxes, move those to a distant yard (to avoid the varroa drifting back into the hives), stack it up to five boxes. All the brood hatches and gets treated.

and how do the bees build new comb, natural comb, or foundation?
Foundation is needed, or drawn but empty comb. Since it is late in the season, feeding required.

How much brood is in the hives at that time,
Depends but up to a full brood box. Older queens have less brood than young queens.

what do they treat with, OA?
Everything you can think of. ;)

Details you find in this document. On page 2 the process is pictured. I roughly translate.

www.llh-hessen.de/downloads/bieneni... Vitale Völker durch komplette_rb_07-2009.pdf

(1) Set aside supers and upper brood box. Check [and take out] the brood combs of the lower brood box. Place 2-4 lightly coloured, fresh drawn honey and pollen combs at the sides/walls.
(2) One comb with fresh eggs and larvae, no capped brood,...
(3) ..is placed in the middle of the lower brood box. Preferably drone brood.
(4) Shake all bees off all the other brood combs. Including the queen. Make sure she's in there. Shake into the lower brood box.
(5) Fill the brood box with either drawn comb or foundation. If there is a flow, the foundation will be drawn, otherwise feed.
(6) Place queen excluder and replace the supers. After the last super of honey is harvested the hive gets another brood box.
(7) The brood combs with a few adhering bees (shake, not brush), that were taken out of the hives are collected/pooled into empty supers and get a pollen and honey comb each side and box. 300 bees per comb side are enough to take care of the brood that will hatch from the capped comb. (600 bees per comb.) If you brushed off all the bees, shake bees from honey supers into the brood collector.
(8) Check queenright hive/queen split after 7-10 days. The foundation has been drawn and the queen made a new broodnest.
(9) Remove the one brood comb in the center, that was given when the split was made. This comb is a varroa trap. Most of the varroa jumps at the fresh brood when all brood is taken out and is trapped into that brood comb, which is taken out. Replace with a sheet of foundation. No more treatment necessary for the queenright split.
(10) The collected brood combs are moved to a distant apiary the same day they were taken out of the hive. Check after 21-24 days. All the brood is hatched until then und old combs can be sorted out. Depending on size of the colony, the numbers of boxes is reduced to 1-2 boxes. The bees made emergency cells and raise their own queen. If that queen fails or is not good enough, she can be replaced later easily.
(11) Because the hive is temporarily broodless one powerful treatment can be used to get rid of all the mites in the "brood collector" hive. Dribbling oxalic acid, spraying lactic acid or the use of fresh brood combs as varroa traps is recommended.

---

This method is quick and easy. They found that it reduces the presence of certain viruses in the wintering colonies. Also the queenright split has no treatments and thus no residues going into winter, which also helps bee health, since all treatments let the bees suffer one way or the other.

You get strong, vigorous colonies that winter much stronger than with other methods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,750 Posts
Pete, Christian,

one in the North of myself, the other in the south. What kind of bees do you use? :scratch: Never saw a broodless hive in August. We have a pollen dearth, too, at this time but never see the bees going out of brood completely. So what kind of bees are you talking about?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This is emblematic for you germans - control every little detail. No wonder you build the best cars in the world, have the greatest composers and so on.
I really appreciate those qualities and most of all, I love Bach - the greatest composer of all times.

When I started to think about beekeeping last year I ran into some I.W.F. movies(Rotating system, Queen rearing). That made me choose the lang hive.

Regards,
Cristian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Pete, Christian,

one in the North of myself, the other in the south. What kind of bees do you use? :scratch: Never saw a broodless hive in August. We have a pollen dearth, too, at this time but never see the bees going out of brood completely. So what kind of bees are you talking about?
We call it apis melifera carpatica - very gentle, swarming

I live at the bottom of a 2300 m mountain peak. We are on the north side. The sun is rising an hour later :)... days can be hot, but nights are allmost allways cold.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top