Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Homebrewers and bread makers know that the yeast that causes fermentation is killed by heat. In the case of bread yeast it is around 110F to kill the yeast.

So, What temp kills the active "wild" yeast that causes honey to ferment ?

Fuzzy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,530 Posts
I'm not sure, but when you homebrew, if you want to pasteurize your wort, you heat it more like 140-150F
That would make your honey taste like the stuff from the store:no:

Dave

[edit] let me clarify that
when you make mead, it's possible to do it without heating it at all
some people pasteurize it at those temps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
939 Posts
I'm confused. What are we trying to do ? Not kill the yeast or keep the honey from fermenting or both ?

My wife makes home brew breads all the time. There's nothing you can do to keep from killing the yeast when baking so let it bake without the honey additive.

Once it's taken out of the oven, keep a turkey thermometer and stick it into the loaf somewhere on the top. Wait for it to cool down to under 110 degrees then make some slits across the top to open up the loaf. Add your pre-heated honey (105 degrees or so) and let it drain into the loaf, done. The honey should be runny enough to get down most of the way depending on where the bread fibers take it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,112 Posts
Homebrewers and bread makers know that the yeast that causes fermentation is killed by heat. In the case of bread yeast it is around 110F to kill the yeast.

So, What temp kills the active "wild" yeast that causes honey to ferment ?

Fuzzy
I am not sure, but you are probably talking about pasturization at 160 degrees F for several minutes in order to control wild yeast growth. Much higher temps to kill wild yeast. Either way, it's probably not something you want to do to honey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The original reason for the question was to determine how to keep honey from fermenting. Many folks complain that their honey ferments. Mine never does, even though I sometimes spin a lot of uncapped frames. Never any that drips or shakes off the frame.
But I do warm it to 120F to get rid of the air bubbles from extracting. This takes 24-48 hrs before it is ready to bottle. So, I suspect that this kills any active yeast in the process.
In order to ferment, the honey must be too wet, there must be live yeast, and there must be available oxygen. As for the last one, the extraction process inserts millions of air bubbles into the honey. This is exactly what the yeast needs to multiply and eventually convert the sugars into alcohol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
but if you extract in a room where the ambient air humidity is very low would this not also help to prevent fermentation? Does the honey not need to absorb water from the atmosphere before the process of fermentation can start?

I think I read somewhere that if you use an air dehumidifier before any fermentation has started they you are on safe ground to keep the honey. Once fermentation has started you have no choice other than making mead or cosmetics ..... ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
"but if you extract in a room where the ambient air humidity is very low would this not also help to prevent fermentation?"

I note that you are in Thailand so you will have very warm and very humid. As a homebrewer I can say that the optimum temp for yeast to multiply is in the 22C to 30C range. As I said earlier, the extraction process introduces a lot of oxygen which is also necessary for the yeast to multiply. You can "dry" the honey using dehumidification and
this should stop the process once you reach safe moisture levels. I believe that point is below 18-20% humidity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read that capped honey does not ferment. What causes fermentation in honey is beeks extracting frames that are not capped and that uncured honey being mixed with the capped honey is the root of fermentation problems.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,533 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read that capped honey does not ferment..
MOST of the time but the bees didnt read the same book as we did.

[/QUOTE]What causes fermentation in honey is beeks extracting frames that are not capped and that uncured honey being mixed with the capped honey is the root of fermentation problems.[/QUOTE]

I have extracted honey that was not capped and it had 14.5% moistuer but some capped honey can have higher than 18% again nothing is writen in stone with the bees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,136 Posts
Dyce claimed that honey should be heated when making creamed honey to kill any yeasts (and also remove large crystals that may be in the honey). He claimed that heating to 150 to 160 (I have seen both attributed to him) and then cooling rapidly did not degrade the honey and killed yeasts in the honey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Yes, I think that is correct.

Fermentation is when the sugar in honey is consumed by yeasts. The yeasts arrive with the nectar and many yeasts die as nectar is changed to honey.

If the water content of honey is about 18 - 20% or less then the fermentation process will not start. If a honey crystalizes then the water content will increase and that can change the status.

Yeasts grow less in a temperature of less than 10C and above 27C.

So there are two causes (and controls) - temperature and the water content.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,964 Posts
Forget about the yeast. Honey will not ferment if the water content is 18% or less (Forget 20% too:). I was taught not to extract a frame that wasn't at least 80% capped. Never had honey ferment here in CT, USA. (Northeast). If I had accidently extracted 5 gals of honey that was high in water....I'd feed it back to the bees. Let them sort it out.

dickm
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top