[muusu]

Hi all,

While I am sure this has been covered, I cannot currently find the thread.

I have seen that some people use 3 medium brood supers and some 2 deep supers. I was hoping to hear some pros and cons of both, other than the weight of a full super.

A brief background: We are currently working with deep boxes as that is what our mentor/supplier was using. We started with a mature hive and a split (both with deep brood boxes), the split was destroyed by a bear, so we have watched the remaining hive closely this winter with fingers crossed and so far everything looks good. I have plans to increase to 4 hives this summer and 6 or 8 next summer.

So, if I am to consider a switch to medium supers, I would like to do so now before I get to far in. With that all said, any advice/suggestions/reasons why mediums might be superior to deeps I would love to hear it.

Thanks

Bill

 

[burns375]

deeps, cheaper less equipment. If you are old or weakling use mediums. Ideally I would like to make a frame/box that is somewhere between medium and deep. Like 7.5-8" perfect size imo for honey brood, everything. Call it the kentucky perfect

 

[beegeorge]

toss in the argument that 8 frame vs 10 frame can reduce weight and you have another thing to think about,,

for me,, I am 63,, I can handle deep 10 frames for a few more years,, and when I cant I will go to 8 frame deeps,, but for supers,, I use shallows,, full they are about 35 lbs,, deeps full are up to 80 lbs,,

it is a multi faceted discussion point that factors in what weight can you handle,, and how many do you have to handle?

 

[laketrout]

Its more than just weight , its about being able to interchange frames through out the whole hive , lite weight going the winter after the fall flow take frames of honey from the honey supers and put them in the brood chambers to help with winter stores , all the same size frames whether its all deeps or all mediums . I'm going with all mediums , not getting any younger , deeps full of honey are pushing 90 pds !!!!!

 

[philip.devos]

Its more than just weight , its about being able to interchange frames through out the whole hive , lite weight going the winter after the fall flow take frames of honey from the honey supers and put them in the brood chambers to help with winter stores , all the same size frames whether its all deeps or all mediums . I'm going with all mediums , not getting any younger , deeps full of honey are pushing 90 pds !!!!!

Amen! As I write this I have a deep 8 fr full of bees with a laying queen below a medium with some bees and a lot of mostly empty combs. I would have liked to pull some brood frames out of the bottom box and swap them with the empty frames from the top box, but of course, can't do because the frames are different sizes. :doh:

 

[BeeRN]

deeps, cheaper less equipment. If you are old or weakling use mediums. Ideally I would like to make a frame/box that is somewhere between medium and deep. Like 7.5-8" perfect size imo for honey brood, everything. Call it the kentucky perfect

I bought some of those from Mann Lake by accident. Made feeders out of some, cut the rest down so my medium frames would fit. I believe they are one inch bigger than a medium.

 

[RudyT]

I have no regrets about using 8 frame medium equipment. When the day comes that I can only lift this amount, I am prepared. A little extra equipment expense is less expensive than back troubles. I would think you'd use 4 8 frame mediums that far north.

 

[muusu]

Beegeorge: We used shallow supers for honey last year, due to unforeseen circumstances I had to pull the honey super off solo and cant even imagine pulling a full deep super.

Laketrout: Interesting point, I had not really considered the mobility that using all mediums can provide, and with them being only slightly bigger than shallows they should still be manageable when full.

As for the 10 or 8 frame, I think I am going to stick with 10's for now.

 

[ukewarrior]

I too run 100% 8 frame mediums.
Having only one size of hive and frame makes life much easier.
This is especially true now that you can get darn near any 'accessory' in 8 frame size from the major suppliers.
I am not a commercial beek.

 

[David LaFerney]

If the weight isn't an issue for you then deeps are probably better. If the weight is going to be an issue then 8 frame mediums is as light as it gets while still being practical for making a honey crop. Which is better for you all hinges on the weight issue.

I'm a pretty big guy, and weight absolutely isn't an issue for me. Until I fractured a vertebra in a construction accident. Sure am glad I went 8 frame medium to begin with. Thank you Michael Bush.

 

[Mr.Beeman]

I like the standardization of running all mediums. You are never with the wrong size supers or the wrong size frames when you need them.
Never ran deeps.. so I personally cannot compare them.

 

[muusu]

I like the standardization of running all mediums. You are never with the wrong size supers or the wrong size frames when you need them.
Never ran deeps.. so I personally cannot compare them.

good to hear from someone almost as far north as I am, there seems to be some debate about mediums in northern climates and the bee cluster not being able to bridge the gap from one super to the next.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

I began keeping bees in the mid 1960's. I kept those first two 10-frame deeps, on the roof of our garden shed, and accessed them with a ladder. I was ten years old. I placed the hives on the roof, a piece at a time, until they were all assembled and in place on the roof. Then I carried up the packages and installed the bees. I was also an avid reader and subscribed to "Gleanings in Bee Culture", where I read an article advocating the use of medium depth supers, exclusively. I agreed, and soon switched my hives to that configuration -- and have primarily remained that way, until just recently, where I switched from 10-frame mediums, to 8-frame mediums.

I am caregiver to my wife, who is paraplegic due to MS. She needs me to always be healthy enough to help care for her, and to assist her in transferring to and from her wheelchair, several times per day. If I were to risk an injury, due to hive manipulations, it would do much more than inconvenience me, for a few days (while my back was healing). Though I am strong enough to easily manage those deep supers, and even 10-frame deeps, I realize that less weight in the bee yard = less chance of having a back injury from bee yard work, so a better chance that I will remain helpful to my wife - which is very important to me.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

good to hear from someone almost as far north as I am, there seems to be some debate about mediums in northern climates and the bee cluster not being able to bridge the gap from one super to the next.

If the equipment is assembled correctly, the space between supers, is one bee space. If it is somehow unintentionally, larger, the bees usually build burr comb in much of that space, which again reduces the "empty" space. Not only can the bees, "bridge the gap", the "gap" can help them move between frames, and access more stores (like communication holes between combs). Cracks/openings between supers is usually sealed up with propolis. Back in the late 1960's and early '70's we relocated from Southern California, and I kept them this way in Eastern Ohio, also the blue ridge mountains of Virginia.

 

[muusu]

If the equipment is assembled correctly, the space between supers, is one bee space. If it is somehow unintentionally, larger, the bees usually build burr comb in much of that space, which again reduces the "empty" space. Not only can the bees, "bridge the gap", the "gap" can help them move between frames, and access more stores (like communication holes between combs). Cracks/openings between supers is usually sealed up with propolis. Back in the late 1960's and early '70's we relocated from Southern California, and I kept them this way in Eastern Ohio, also the blue ridge mountains of Virginia.

Excellent points

 

[Michael Bush]

>While I am sure this has been covered, I cannot currently find the thread.

I would bet there are at least 2,000 threads on the subject...

>I have seen that some people use 3 medium brood supers and some 2 deep supers.

And some, like me, are using four (or however many the queen wishes to occupy) eight frame mediums...

>I was hoping to hear some pros and cons of both, other than the weight of a full super.

The only pro to deeps in my opinion, is that they are somewhat cheaper (same cost more volume) however not enough to cover my back surgery if I used them...

>A brief background: We are currently working with deep boxes as that is what our mentor/supplier was using. We started with a mature hive and a split (both with deep brood boxes), the split was destroyed by a bear, so we have watched the remaining hive closely this winter with fingers crossed and so far everything looks good. I have plans to increase to 4 hives this summer and 6 or 8 next summer.

Sounds like a good time to change.

>So, if I am to consider a switch to medium supers, I would like to do so now before I get to far in. With that all said, any advice/suggestions/reasons why mediums might be superior to deeps I would love to hear it.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize

>If you are old or weakling use mediums.

You will be surprised how rapidly that happens...

>good to hear from someone almost as far north as I am, there seems to be some debate about mediums in northern climates and the bee cluster not being able to bridge the gap from one super to the next.

Actually the cluster is usually spanning that gap and it helps them move side to side. Deeps create walls between portions of the cluster. Mediums have a gap running across between the boxes allowing the bees to move side to side. My winters are typically -10 F for a couple of weeks. A lot of -20 F this year. All eight frame medium boxes.

 

[muusu]

Actually the cluster is usually spanning that gap and it helps them move side to side. Deeps create walls between portions of the cluster. Mediums have a gap running across between the boxes allowing the bees to move side to side. My winters are typically -10 F for a couple of weeks. A lot of -20 F this year. All eight frame medium boxes.

That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks to everyone, that helped a ton. I will be setting up with all mediums starting this spring, assuming this pile of snow finally melts!

 

[laketrout]

One more thing to think about , its fairly easy to change deeps to mediums , 2 mins. on the table saw and you have a med. But if you go 10 frame and some day want 8 frame , all your bottom boards , inner covers and top covers won't fit and it would be a heck of a job to make them fit , I still went with 10 frame , just something to be aware of now before you get alot of equipment . Good luck , and have fun .

 

[Roland]

Pick a one depth. If you are in this for the money, pick a deep. If not, it does not matter, you can afford what ever is easiest for you.

Crazy Roland

 

[Mr.Beeman]

I also hear that a "cluster of bees cannot bridge the gap between supers", but then I remember an actual swarm cluster where they have nothing to hang on to but each other.
Some swarm sizes are the size of basketballs (if not larger) breeze is blowing, branch is a swinging... but they still hang on.
Inside a hive..... no problem.