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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
So yeah, I made my first CV hive and even put bees into it yesterday.
https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?350173-GregV-s-Alternative-way-to-keep-(have-)-bees&p=1837675#post1837675

20200919_132435.jpg

For the spring 2021 will build a bunch of standard small frames so to manage this thing by a box (the real intent).
Ideally also want to add few more boxes, so I can run two units in the CV configuration.

Making it was fun and a learning experience, and also removed some wood trash in the backyard
Many ideas came along too.

Among few things - the pegged corner design provides for a very ergonomic grip (just like people in the know claimed).
I just hate how one need to hold regular Lang boxes; for shame.
I also envision cleats for alternative holding of the boxes (Warre-style), but this set came from recycled Lang 10-frames and I just take advantage of the existing wall cut-outs.
20200919_141203.jpg
20200919_141209.jpg
20200919_141700.jpg
20200919_140844.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
If it'll help - in the other thread, Greg says it's a 300x300 hive - that makes it 8-frame. But I'm sure Greg will be along shortly to confirm.

Greg - nice job :thumbsup: :)
LJ
Thanks LJ.
It is a nominal 300x300 square (exact +/- millimeters do not really matter, of course).
8-9 frames.
1.25/1.375 inch frames - will fit 9.
1.5 inch frames - will fit 8.

The square bottom:
20200919_140703.jpg
Standard square box:
20200919_142250.jpg

Of course, it makes sense to have some space to shift frames, and so 8 frames is preferred then.
On Saturday I transferred a live trap colony into it - squeezed in 9 frames so to not leave out anything useful.

After much deliberation and research, I ditched the ability to run frames both cold and warm way (due to some technicalities on converting 10-frame Lang boxes - which I like recycling).
It will be the warm-way for me forward on.
I don't see much any benefits in the cold-way when using short frames (nothing but drawbacks, really).
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
is this a 6 frame hive?
8-9 frame.

However, it is compatible to 6-7 medium Lang frames (by the comb area).
By box weight/comb area this is very similar to a 6-frame hive.
Just different ergonomics/energy profile (better IMO).
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Are you going to be using a deeper frame in the broodnest area?
Not by default.
I want to be able to populate my CVs from my deep long hives/deep swarm traps - hence the built-in compatibility.
OR I also want to be able to populate from standard Lang frames - which are also fully supported - just drop them in with very minimal or NO mods.
Typical source frames are pictured.
20200919_132911.jpg

But those converted will be shifted onto the standard frames (and the deep frames are to be removed in some weeks).
I wanna be able to run a unit as small as a single box - which could be a mating nuc on 2 small frames or a full size nuc on 8-9 small frames.

I want to be able to largely manage the CVs by the box (and not monkey with the individual frames as much as possible).
A single box fitted with 9 small standard frames is compatible in comb area to 3 deep Dadant frames (~4 deep Lang frames or ~6 medium Lang frames) - very much manageable by a small person like me.

This white frame proto-type is my new standard frame (as compared to Land medium frame).
20200919_132721.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #12
There was a question/concern with the pegged design - it seems no way to slide the boxes (so to reduce the # of bees squashed).
With the pegs facing down, you can slide the boxes - not a problem.
Like so:
20200919_142011.jpg

The pegs facing DOWN have other benefits too (vs. the original pegged design with the pegs facing UP):
- you can stand a box on any surface without smashing the bees
- you can temporarily and snugly cover the box (or entire hive) with fabric or plywood or ceramic tile, similar to a conventional box (where nothing is protruding up).

In general, the peg makes for a very strong corner - this is what really holding the corners - perpendicular screws driven into the peg.
No screws ever are driven along the wood grain (a very weak joint).
The screws are always driven across the wood grain (a strong joint).
20200919_140808.jpg

Otherwise the box is just assembled by few staples to temporarily hold it together until the pegs are installed.
This makes for a trivial removing of the pegs and repairs/mods and installing the pegs back (which I have done several time trying to work the glitches out).
The pegs are really an expandable item and easily/cheaply replaced without a need to disassemble the entire box.

Another feature of the peg - box separation.
With the pegs, one needs not cut into the boxes to separate them.
You separate the boxes by leveraging the pegs (there is built-in 1/8" separation between the pegs - they do not touch).
Like so:
20200919_140945.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It is a shame I forgot to take a picture to demonstrate how stable the stack is.
I would move it around and tilt it as I wished.
One can easily lean the tower all way to 60-70 degrees and it holds together as a unit without additional strapping (the strapping will make this tower solid as a rock).

The pegs make moving the boxes really nice - nothing shifts around in a car (it is the original military crate feature as I mentioned).
I am getting a bit tired of Lang boxes sliding all over my minivan when I move the stuff around.
20200919_151033.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Another feature of this particular CVH - box-to-box partial compatibility with 10-frame Lang boxes.
This is one reason why I decided to build the first batch of boxes by just recycling the Lang boxes I had on hand - to design-in the backward box-compatibility.

In a pinch, regular 10-frame boxes (and the regular frames included) can be used intermixed with the CV boxes (with very minimal adjustments).

The current square configuration allows to intermix longer Lang boxes when out of native equipment.
Backward compatibility with the common equipment is beneficial when going a custom way (be it a frame or a box).
A typical issue with most Warre makers/users, they fail to see this obvious fact and them paint themselves into the corner (the same with the TB hives too).

The red lines show about how the commercial Lang box would overlay onto the CV stack.
20200919_140703_Mod.jpg

(LJ has been advocating for the same idea forever - intermixing partially compatible equipment).

This is a very similar idea to what this beek does (mix and match)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ue2ensA-HU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdW164Uh1iI
 

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Hi Greg I like this. Your peg design makes a lot of sense.

This may be a stupid question, and I'm sure the answer is there somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it - what is the advantage of CVHs over standard langs? Is it the weight/manageability of the boxes?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Hi Greg I like this. Your peg design makes a lot of sense.

This may be a stupid question, and I'm sure the answer is there somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it - what is the advantage of CVHs over standard langs? Is it the weight/manageability of the boxes?
I spent last couple of years now monitoring this trend of modern CV hive variants (simply more modern versions of Warre and DeLong hives).
This is before I decided trying it out and getting the real feel for it and selecting the design features.
Importantly, I have live examples where people successfully use CVH designs from near subtropical settings all way to deep Siberia - so the idea is flexible as practice demonstrates. I also keep track of various business models - starting from 100% static small-scale settings all way to commercial migratory beeks where such hives are moved around on trailers.

Basically, these are tall and narrow hives that resemble natural tree hollows in many respects.
Generally, these hives have close to square 300x300 cross-sections (about 8-9 frames).
The frames are of multiple designs can be found, but significantly they only are different in the depth (from 3-4 inches all way to 19 inches and even deeper).

Bee advantages:
- better energy/moisture/climate management in such cavities, especially so in cold climates - these amounts to good wintering outcomes while using very little stores
- consequently, better life cycle of the colony throughout the year - this then amounts to healthy swarming patterns, btw (regardless of the human attitudes towards it)

Human advantages (some of the "advantages" very much dependent on the small frame size - not to rehash this over and over).
- obviously, lighter boxes
- naturally, this makes the equipment well adapted for mobility (especially with the pegged designs)
- simple and cheap frame designs (by default no wiring and similar rigging is needed at all - again, for small frames only)
- being able to efficiently manage the hives "by a box" - no need for individual frame inspections for many procedures
- using standard equipment for small colony projects (e. g. mating nucs, etc).
- having the bee nests segments (bee bread, brood, honey) conveniently separated between the boxes
- ability to have harvest in low producing area
- ability to still harvest in poor weather (e.g. early spring)
- ability to harvest mono-sourced honeys
- ability to run more colonies while having them of a smaller size and still sustainable and producing

Surely, I missed some ideas (I just dumping them from my head).

And, of course, there are disadvantages.
Some of these can easily be deduced from the above items (pretty much every advantage can be argued as having its flaws).

What is wrong with my long hives then?
Nothing, except - I can hardly move them around by myself (and I mean serious transporting the live hives site to a site, not toying around on a backyard).
 
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