Copper Naphthenate
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Been using it at 8% copper nahp to 92% parafin dipping boxes for 12 hrs at 200 degrees. Boxes I dipped in 1994 look new today! I dont paint...just dip and use. LOve it!
I'm getting ready to try it. I researched the archives (lots of competing answers and differing opinions) and from my perspective found it to be safe.
I have a five-gallon bucket of Perme-8 from Dadants. I'm going to blend/dilute it with five gallons of #2 Diesel to one gallon of Perme-8. This will give me a 1.3% dipping solution.
I went to the local farm supply store and found a rubber, chemically-neutral, 30-gallon oval horse tank. It was sold under the name of "Tuff Stuff." An assembled deep brood box fits nicely in it (even took an assembled brood box with me to the store to make sure).
My plan, now that we're done with the holidays, is to assemble my boxes first, then dip, then allow ample time to dry out before I put them to use in April. I can assemble a box in 8 minutes, and with the time to remove one box from the dip tank and put another one in, that should give me a dip time of ten minutes.
Will that be long enough? Don't know, we'll see. I have no plans to paint these boxes, but I read that if you want to paint them, an oil-based paint is required, but only after they have sufficient time to dry.
I'm also dipping SBB and since they're already assembled, I'll probably leave them in the tank for 24 hours when I'm at work.
Bear in mind, there are different ways to do this. John Pluto prefers to dip, then dry, then assemble. You can search out his style on youtube.com by searching for his name.
Grant
Jackson, MO
I have a five-gallon bucket of Perme-8 from Dadants. I'm going to blend/dilute it with five gallons of #2 Diesel to one gallon of Perme-8. This will give me a 1.3% dipping solution.
I went to the local farm supply store and found a rubber, chemically-neutral, 30-gallon oval horse tank. It was sold under the name of "Tuff Stuff." An assembled deep brood box fits nicely in it (even took an assembled brood box with me to the store to make sure).
My plan, now that we're done with the holidays, is to assemble my boxes first, then dip, then allow ample time to dry out before I put them to use in April. I can assemble a box in 8 minutes, and with the time to remove one box from the dip tank and put another one in, that should give me a dip time of ten minutes.
Will that be long enough? Don't know, we'll see. I have no plans to paint these boxes, but I read that if you want to paint them, an oil-based paint is required, but only after they have sufficient time to dry.
I'm also dipping SBB and since they're already assembled, I'll probably leave them in the tank for 24 hours when I'm at work.
Bear in mind, there are different ways to do this. John Pluto prefers to dip, then dry, then assemble. You can search out his style on youtube.com by searching for his name.
Grant
Jackson, MO
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2,909 Posts
I dip my boxes for a minum of 24 hours, other beekeepers I know go up to 72 hours plus. I am in the process of dipping 24 deep bodies, one body a day.
The tank I have will only hold one deep or two mediums when they are assembled but I would rather dip after assembly than handle the dipped parts.
The tank I have will only hold one deep or two mediums when they are assembled but I would rather dip after assembly than handle the dipped parts.
I've got to say, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of dipping supers in a diesel/coppernapthanate mix. I not nuts about dipping in parafin/napthanate. Why not stack and spray paint the exteriors? I don't think I've ever had one rot from the inside out.
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1,261 Posts
I know big beeks who dip them in CN mixed with mineral spirits (i think). They are happy with its performance and no ill effects. Some dip the box sides prior to building and others build them first. For me I agree with BEEMANDAN I stack and paint them with a commercial spray setup (2 coats latex).
The diesel fuel might be bad news! It takes a LONG time for the diesel to evaporate and the smell stays a lot longer. We used to dip ours in the copper napthenate and mineral spirits and never had a problem. 10 minutes is not long enough though! When you dip them you'll be able to see how far the green stuff has penetrated at the ends of the board (end grain). Leave them in until the fingers of the joint are penetrated, as the end grain is where any moisture enters the wood.
We dip all boxes, bottoms, and exposed sides of tops in CN we buy at Lowes. We assemble first, then dip, feel we get better glue joint this way. Then paint with oil based white barn paint. After cost and time of building a box want it to last a long time'
After airing for a few days have had no problems.
Johnny
After airing for a few days have had no problems.
Johnny
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3,591 Posts
I havent dipped any boxes yet but if your rolling the paint on I have a slick trick. Use two sawhorses and run two 2x4's inside of your assembled boxes. Now they are suspended. I use a brush to paint the hand holds and then a roller to go over the boxes. You can turn the boxes without having to put a wet side down. Separate the boxes in between coats while drying. Depending on the length of your 2 x 4's you can paint a lot of boxes fast this way.
I hope you are, at least, diluting that CN.
It's funny, about ten years ago I toured a large beekeeping outfit and they dipped their boxes in Cop Nap and diesel. My reaction was the same as yours. YUCK! How could they do that!
Having watched and revisited this beekeeper each year, he's been a great source of information and inspiration. I think the diesel is a better alternative to the mineral spirits, and it's hard to tell any ill effects from what I've seen. He dips tops and bottoms and brood boxes, not the supers. That's my plan as well.
Thanks for the comment on the time to dip. I've read some guys brush the Cop Nap on with a paint brush with a stronger concentration than the 1.3%. Now I didn't think that was long enough.
I appreciate the differing opinions and the openness to share different ideas. Iron cannot sharpen itself.
Grant
Jackson, MO
Having watched and revisited this beekeeper each year, he's been a great source of information and inspiration. I think the diesel is a better alternative to the mineral spirits, and it's hard to tell any ill effects from what I've seen. He dips tops and bottoms and brood boxes, not the supers. That's my plan as well.
Thanks for the comment on the time to dip. I've read some guys brush the Cop Nap on with a paint brush with a stronger concentration than the 1.3%. Now I didn't think that was long enough.
I appreciate the differing opinions and the openness to share different ideas. Iron cannot sharpen itself.
Grant
Jackson, MO
how much is this copper napathanate? is it just that simple mix,dip,dry,paint? does it evaporate from the tub you use? i was wanting to dip a few top bar hives before i assemble them. i want to leave them natural wood looking. how dark dows it turn the wood? thanks
if you just need a little, Lowes has the water based Termin-8 brand and Rossman's has a solvent based brand (both in 1 gallon for about $15 or so)
They are liquids. The water based is thinnable with water (doh!), the one Rossman's sells is thinnable with mineral spirits. Behr also has one but my Home Depot does not have it.
Wood treated with either one takes oil or latex paint well if you let it dry for a few days.
Water based is brown, solvent based is green. When you smell it you will know what gives canvas tents that funky smell!
They are liquids. The water based is thinnable with water (doh!), the one Rossman's sells is thinnable with mineral spirits. Behr also has one but my Home Depot does not have it.
Wood treated with either one takes oil or latex paint well if you let it dry for a few days.
Water based is brown, solvent based is green. When you smell it you will know what gives canvas tents that funky smell!
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706 Posts
Um # 2 Diesel? don't dip your hives body parts in that mixed with anything your bees might die at worst or really screw up your honey with a diesel flavor.
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706 Posts
I use termin 8 brown my hives look like cedar when I am done no ill effects cheap and easy no need to water it down. no rot no bugs chewing on the wood as well.
If you are soaking or dipping your hive parts in CN, please be sure to dilute. If you check this link, go down to study number 5. CN diluted to 2% and applied to a single interior surface (the bottom board) showed significant reductions in the bees learning and memory. Although not significant, there was some noticeable reduction in brood production. Imagine how much greater this might be if there are six surfaces (four walls, a bottom and top) and add the potential impact of higher concentrations. If you buy Copper Green at Lowes, for example, it comes at a 10% concentration (5 times greater than used in the study). This doesn’t take into account the possible impact of unapproved dilutants.
http://www.extension.org/pages/Proceedings_of_the_American_Bee_Research_Conference,_2009
I am not trying to be critical. I am only suggesting caution.
Best of the New Year.
http://www.extension.org/pages/Proceedings_of_the_American_Bee_Research_Conference,_2009
I am not trying to be critical. I am only suggesting caution.
Best of the New Year.
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