Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, all,

I'm thinking about purchasing some carniolan bees for 2019.
The apiary I contacted is only selling nucs.

So right now I'm thinking about how I'm going to convert these nuc frames for use in a horizontal deep hive.

I think I would connect a deep frame underneath whatever size frame comes with the nuc. As for the top bar of the nuc frame, I think I might have to lash that to something to adapt it to fit in the horizontal deep hive.

Any suggestions or tips?

thanks,
Thomas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,649 Posts
I saw a video of somebody (the barefoot beekeeper as I recall) converting national frames to a Kenyan, clipped the sidebars with a pruner and trimmed the comb to the shape of the box.
If your box doesn’t correspond with the top bars of the nuc, you’ll have to cut the comb out of the frame and hang them off your top bars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
Hi, all,

I'm thinking about purchasing some carniolan bees for 2019.
The apiary I contacted is only selling nucs.

So right now I'm thinking about how I'm going to convert these nuc frames for use in a horizontal deep hive.

I think I would connect a deep frame underneath whatever size frame comes with the nuc. As for the top bar of the nuc frame, I think I might have to lash that to something to adapt it to fit in the horizontal deep hive.

Any suggestions or tips?

thanks,
Thomas
So what is wrong with the Dr. Leo's way?
That's what I do - link below.
I posted enough pics already to repeat myself.

The only difference from the Dr. Leo, I instead clip the ears off, screw a top bar in, and reuse the converted Lang frames in as-is without all that conversion hardware - it is not needed (I don't rotate the Lang frames out per the Dr. Leo method). No need for extra hassle, no need for extra conversion hoops once you make your hives only a tad deeper so to reuse native the Lang equipment.

http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/convert-langstroth-layens.shtml
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi, Dan,

yeah, I should clarify.

I do NOT mean top bar hive with angled sides.

I mean a really tall box (though non-Langstroth). For receiving langstroth frames, I believe I will need at least 19" wide. It will be around 22" deep and 33" long.

I currently have boxes like this which are 17" wide (non-Langstroth), so I suppose I could cut the frames out and put them in my smaller frames for the 17" but that seems like the worst for the bees.

-Thomas

The horizontal deep is a normal frame size do you mean top bar
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi, Greg,

does that mean you rotate the combs 90 degrees?

I was wondering how that would affect the bees.

I was hoping there was a method that didn't involve rotation.

thanks,
Thomas
So what is wrong with the Dr. Leo's way?
That's what I do - link below.
I posted enough pics already to repeat myself.

The only difference from the Dr. Leo, I instead clip the ears off, screw a top bar in, and reuse the converted Lang frames in as-is without all that conversion hardware - it is not needed (I don't rotate the Lang frames out per the Dr. Leo method). No need for extra hassle, no need for extra conversion hoops once you make your hives only a tad deeper so to reuse native the Lang equipment.

http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/convert-langstroth-layens.shtml
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
Hi, Greg,

does that mean you rotate the combs 90 degrees?

I was wondering how that would affect the bees.

I was hoping there was a method that didn't involve rotation.

thanks,
Thomas
Hey Thomas,
This has been discussed already on BS and you can search and see that, but here goes.

Two quick things:
1) they don't care much if at all and keep using the rotated combs normally for either brood or honey;
I have many 90-degree rotated combs in usage as we speak (I just got them for free and of course reuse them just because "why not");
2) you will only get maybe 5 frames per a nuc and the bees will build the rest of the hive "properly" anyway; IF you care you will gradually pull the rotated frames out - but why waste them? I wouldn't.

Anyway, rotating the combs would be one of my least worries.
Dr. Leo, basically, confirms the same.
M. Bush confirms the same many times over.
OR - check youtube for "matts layens" and watch live how Matt converted nuc Lang frames into his Layen's hives if need more convincing in this regard (exact project you are thinking about - Matt has already done and has lots videos)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,409 Posts
For receiving langstroth frames, I believe I will need at least 19" wide. It will be around 22" deep and 33" long.

I currently have boxes like this which are 17" wide (non-Langstroth) ...
Thomas - unless the boxes you already have are particularly precious to you 'as is', and providing they don't have telescopic covers (which complicates what follows) - the easiest solution to your problem would be to cut those boxes clean down the middle and insert whatever's needed to increase their width to that of the Langstroth frame. Depth disparity doesn't matter at this stage - there are many ways of dealing with that - it's the frame top bar length issue which is the fly in the proverbial ointment.
LJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
Thomas - unless the boxes you already have are particularly precious to you 'as is', and providing they don't have telescopic covers (which complicates what follows) - the easiest solution to your problem would be to cut those boxes clean down the middle and insert whatever's needed to increase their width to that of the Langstroth frame. Depth disparity doesn't matter at this stage - there are many ways of dealing with that - it's the frame top bar length issue which is the fly in the proverbial ointment.
LJ
I do remember suggesting Thomas going for 15 inch top bar (I did this exactly because that makes the Lang to horizontal conversion much less painful - pretty sure I tried to explain that; too lazy to search for that topic).
Unsure how the 17 inch decision was made up.

Well, instead cutting anything (that is some drastic re-engineering to do), I would instead make the hive a bit narrower inside and still shoot for 15 inch TB (AND use this mod as an opportunity to add some insulation inside while at it - trivial addition of a foam sandwich would be my way - the hive is static anyway, not mobile).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,409 Posts
I do remember suggesting Thomas going for 15 inch top bar (I did this exactly because that makes the Lang to horizontal conversion much less painful - pretty sure I tried to explain that; too lazy to search for that topic).
Unsure how the 17 inch decision was made up.

Well, instead cutting anything (that is some drastic re-engineering to do), I would instead make the hive a bit narrower inside and still shoot for 15 inch TB (AND use this mod as an opportunity to add some insulation inside while at it - trivial addition of a foam sandwich would be my way - the hive is static anyway, not mobile).
I agree - slicing a hive in half lengthwise IS drastic - but at least after such surgery you then have a hive into which Langstroth frames can be imported and exported with relative ease.

Another approach would be to make a 'conversion hive' - essentially nothing more than a 10-frame Langstroth deep, into which the nuc could be installed - with a partition board dummying-down the excess space. When the nuc is stronger, then chequer-board 15"/17" or whatever the desired frame top-bar size is, tie-wrapped underneath plain 19" top bars. Then phase out the Lang frames over the season, and finally cut the tie-wraps and move the shorter frames into their new homes. Providing there's no rush for the install - that would work ok.

I remember seeing one guy's solution to the problem of moving combs back and forth between a KTBH and a standard National (slightly smaller version of the Langstroth) - he made what was essentially a short (18" ?) KTBH and simply bolted it onto the open end of a National brood box - if memory serves. Looked really weird - but apparently it worked ok. Bees don't much care. :)

Found it:


So - that's another possible solution - simply bolt the 19" nuc box onto the end of the 17" Long Hive (with a few access holes between them) and wait for the bees to expand into the bigger box.
LJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey, Greg,

thank you very much for the recap!

I'm liking this "rotate the langstroth frame" idea much better than the other ideas, because it allows me to stick with my current "deep horizontal" boxes as is.

the link you referenced, Leo is putting a 2x4 next to the rotate frame, but I'm thinking I'm going to have about 6.375" space next to a rotated deep langstroth frame, so maybe I would have another DIY frame next to the rotated deep langstroth, both attached to a 17" top bar.

thanks!
Thomas

Hey Thomas,
This has been discussed already on BS and you can search and see that, but here goes.

Two quick things:
1) they don't care much if at all and keep using the rotated combs normally for either brood or honey;
I have many 90-degree rotated combs in usage as we speak (I just got them for free and of course reuse them just because "why not");
2) you will only get maybe 5 frames per a nuc and the bees will build the rest of the hive "properly" anyway; IF you care you will gradually pull the rotated frames out - but why waste them? I wouldn't.

Anyway, rotating the combs would be one of my least worries.
Dr. Leo, basically, confirms the same.
M. Bush confirms the same many times over.
OR - check youtube for "matts layens" and watch live how Matt converted nuc Lang frames into his Layen's hives if need more convincing in this regard (exact project you are thinking about - Matt has already done and has lots videos)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
Hey, Greg,

thank you very much for the recap!

I'm liking this "rotate the langstroth frame" idea much better than the other ideas, because it allows me to stick with my current "deep horizontal" boxes as is.

the link you referenced, Leo is putting a 2x4 next to the rotate frame, but I'm thinking I'm going to have about 6.375" space next to a rotated deep langstroth frame, so maybe I would have another DIY frame next to the rotated deep langstroth, both attached to a 17" top bar.

thanks!
Thomas
Sure thing.

Absolutely - you can do this - " I would have another DIY frame next to the rotated deep langstroth, both attached to a 17" top bar."
I would not waste the space myself and rather use it also.
In fact, with 6.375" of space - look into putting a standard Lang medium frame as a filler - it just might fit as-is or a very minor shave-off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Hi, all,

I'm thinking about purchasing some carniolan bees for 2019.
The apiary I contacted is only selling nucs.

So right now I'm thinking about how I'm going to convert these nuc frames for use in a horizontal deep hive.

I think I would connect a deep frame underneath whatever size frame comes with the nuc. As for the top bar of the nuc frame, I think I might have to lash that to something to adapt it to fit in the horizontal deep hive.

Any suggestions or tips?

thanks,
Thomas
It's very common for sellers to offer their bees in nucs. In the nuc are brood, laying queen, nurse bees and pollen & honey. Everything you need to produce a thriving hive. Inspect the nuc every few weeks to check to moniter if and when they're ready to be transfered into a deep 10 frame Langstroth to provide more space for brood and honey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey, TehachapiGal,

I won't be transferring the nuc to a langstroth hive at all. I'll transfer it to a deep horizontal hive.

Heart,
thomas

It's very common for sellers to offer their bees in nucs. In the nuc are brood, laying queen, nurse bees and pollen & honey. Everything you need to produce a thriving hive. Inspect the nuc every few weeks to check to moniter if and when they're ready to be transfered into a deep 10 frame Langstroth to provide more space for brood and honey.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top