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I bought a copy of this new book of his. He certainly doe not give high marks to the quality of info from popular media and pounces pretty hard on repeated advice that was not well based in the first place. He emphasises teaching to learn why; to read signs and try to undestand what the bees are doing. Quite a bit of it is slanted towards the native bee of the British Isles and you can tell he is not fond of what we would call the modern Italian or pollinator bees. He favors a less prolific bee condsidering them a better match for the weather and forage there. He questions much of the fooferah over the Buckfast bee and does not consider them a very stable line. It is interesting and some nuggets in it but I dont think a must have for a new beekeeper starting on this continent.
well said
Yes Roger does have a "personality" I like his talks.

Once I "moved" past "2 answers" to the same question means 1 is wrong, dis that guy or girl, I made very good progress.

Now I am at, ALL answers are right, in some dimension of time and space, some for me more righter than the others. Try them all keep what works. Keep looking.

More like a game of Rummy, you draw a card / Idea, if it is better than what you have you keep it , if not if is discarded.
Keeping the best ideas. Not assuming you have the best hand. And Hoping you did not bet too much.....

GG
 

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Lots of information out there about eliminating moisture dripping on your bees. I believe in a more natural approach- No upper entrance and loads of insulation. Bill Hesbach articles.
Jerry
More insulation on top then on sides, so that condensation on colder walls not under the roof.
 

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5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
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Lots of information out there about eliminating moisture dripping on your bees. I believe in a more natural approach- No upper entrance and loads of insulation. Bill Hesbach articles.
Jerry
Natural approach??
Sorry you lost me there.
Bees are livestock, their hive we build, Natural hole in a man made structure??
in a tree,, is it more natural, for the hole above or below the tree hollow? both? mid way?

Make it any way you want, but a square Lang box with nails and screws and paint, in not in the Natural realm, IMO

I would say more functional, rather than natural.

GG
 

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I believe in a more natural approach- No upper entrance
Directly from the T. Seeley (red arrow is mine - to point out this very natural upper entrance) :)
Notice HIS example of a natural entrance that HE used in several books, not just one.
Odd how he made all kinds of conclusions and observations - end yet never made one good picture of a lower located natural entrance, suitable for a book.

Of course, T. S. later on conseeded that his early conclusions of the preferred lower natural entrance placement by the bees was rather hasty and skewed (due to his early methods of data collection). See his recent "The Lives of Bees" for that remark.
Font Trunk Tree Poster Screenshot
 

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It's Bees we are talking about, there are no hard and fast rules.
Anything goes, the exception can always be found.

Here is the problem, any tree cavity with an upper opening would be subject to flooding, if there is no drain.
The picture appears to show a drain, hard to say as the pic is cut off.
But I'd guess that it does have some kind of drain as that opening is fairly large and could collect a lot of rain.
 

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Here is the problem, any tree cavity with an upper opening would be subject to flooding, if there is no drain.
UNLESS, that upper entrance is protected from direct and significant water entry - which is always a possibility. :)

A drain OR large water collection volume down there is nice to have also - and also a possibility.
 

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What some of the authors thought represented natural entrances really has no bearing on the present. Too many variables and too much lost in the telling. What was found occurring in the wild was what the bees found and made do with; not necessarily the best or even good for you in your weather and your bees which could be far different from what the authors were writing about.
We are primarily discussing wintering in boxes similar to Langstroth. Even there we could be discussing single deeps or a larger number of stacked boxes each of which have different thermodynamics affecting conclusions.
There was a recent post on Bee-L which made sense only if a bare wooden box is was being discussed. The insulation R Value of the upper surfaces relative to walls, is of critical importance in predicting the amount and location where condensation will occur. The stack height and location of holes have to be taken into consideration when making comparisons.
Without defining parameters we are like the 7 Blind Men and the Elephant!
 

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None of my colonies have upper vents. None of them are even close to starvation or death.

The requirement of an upper vent is a myth.
 
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None of my colonies have upper vents. None of them are even close to starvation or death.

The requirement of an upper vent is a myth.
Do you think it is so even in an uninsulated hive where condensation up above is a given if there is no ventilation? I think it is the presence of lots of upper insulation that may put the question mark to the upper ventilation issue.
 

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A condensing hive without upper insulation is a dead hive.
 
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A condensing hive without upper insulation is a dead hive.
Yes I think that would be the case. Maybe it boils down to saying that a colony with a highly insulated top and sides does not require upper ventilation. That is my setup and my position.

Yet we know that probably more colonies survive with very little insulation up top and only a hive wrap but with quite large upper entrance/ vent hole. Both methods will work but I predict the insulation without upper vent will do so with considerably lower honey consumption.
 

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Well ,there you have it. As soon as you think somthing will or won't work ... been keeping mine with an empty super above inner cover and no insulation, no wood chips ect and full bottom opening for the last 8 ,9 years with great success. Zone 5 b nucs and doubble deeps. To some degree the warm air passing through the feed hole in the inner cover creates a warm pocket above that could be considered insulating just as the gas between a doubble pain window does . Have yet to find any signs of moisture on the inner cover but do quite often find bees up there surrounding the feed hole. I think timely fall feeding is a contributing factor to said lack of moisture as I allow 4 to 5 weeks for drying and capping of 2 to 1 syrup
 

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Well ,there you have it. As soon as you think somthing will or won't work ... been keeping mine with an empty super above inner cover and no insulation, no wood chips ect and full bottom opening for the last 8 ,9 years with great success. Zone 5 b nucs and doubble deeps. To some degree the warm air passing through the feed hole in the inner cover creates a warm pocket above that could be considered insulating just as the gas between a doubble pain window does . Have yet to find any signs of moisture on the inner cover but do quite often find bees up there surrounding the feed hole. I think timely fall feeding is a contributing factor to said lack of moisture as I allow 4 to 5 weeks for drying and capping of 2 to 1 syrup
Dry, absolutely still air has an R-value of 3.6 per inch of air — as good as most insulation materials.

not empty is is full of air. :) a cost effective Insulation, and easy to store in the off season.
full bottom opening can allow some moisture out.
If it has a balance then it works for you.


GG
 

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we've been doing it all wrong.

In a home, now we can Just put plywood below and along the side beams and make magical air spaces like @birddog

solves home insulation without spending a fortune insulation material.
 

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we've been doing it all wrong.

In a home, now we can Just put plywood below and along the side beams and make magical air spaces like @birddog

solves home insulation without spending a fortune insulation material.
It does not solve....
Our built in 1927 part of the house has magical air space. Our new addition has insulation according to current standards. The thermostats are in newer part of the house and make its rooms comfortable all year around (Chicagoland). The old part is hot in summer and cold in winter while connected to the same HVAC. The beehive obeys the same science of thermodynamics and it does not care about opinions. Science is science, it is objective.

See Recommended Home Insulation R–Values for Florida. It because of hot weather not the winter colds.
 

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we've been doing it all wrong.

In a home, now we can Just put plywood below and along the side beams and make magical air spaces like @birddog

solves home insulation without spending a fortune insulation material.
Air WAS used for a 100 years or so , then old newspaper , sawdust, straw.
The pink panther is a new phenom. Your dating your self...
hmm I guess I am as well

GG
 

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It does not solve....
Our built in 1927 part of the house has magical air space. Our new addition has insulation according to current standards. The thermostats are in newer part of the house and make its rooms comfortable all year around (Chicagoland). The old part is hot in summer and cold in winter while connected to the same HVAC. The beehive obeys the same science of thermodynamics and it does not care about opinions. Science is science, it is objective.

See Recommended Home Insulation R–Values for Florida. It because of hot weather not the winter colds.
jtgoral, I presume he is being Sarcastic.

And Air is still used in modern, housing. What insulation is between double and triple pane glass windows.
look out your window, it isn't pink...

GG
 

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jtgoral, I presume he is being Sarcastic.

And Air is still used in modern, housing. What insulation is between double and triple pane glass windows.
look out your window, it isn't pink...

GG
Between double glasses there is vacuum for as long as the seal lasts, I think
 

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jtgoral, I presume he is being Sarcastic.

And Air is still used in modern, housing. What insulation is between double and triple pane glass windows.
look out your window, it isn't pink...

GG
jtgoral, I presume he is being Sarcastic.

And Air is still used in modern, housing. What insulation is between double and triple pane glass windows.
look out your window, it isn't pink...

GG
jtgoral, I presume he is being Sarcastic.

And Air is still used in modern, housing. What insulation is between double and triple pane glass windows.
look out your window, it isn't pink...

GG
Argon is used, both for better R Value and the absensce of water vapor to cause frosting. I remember the good old days on the farm where the pee pots used to freeze up and the mice used to play floor hockey in the moonllight on the linoleum floor in my bed room!

Incidentally the "good old days" are remembered best by those with failing memories!
 
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