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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems to me, that there is quite a bit of controversy on this subject of tf beekeeping. Some beekeepers don´t believe at all, that commercial beekeeping without treatments is possible. Some argue that it should be. It´s like the Human Genome -project. Very few believed 30 years ago, that it would ever be possible to accomplish. But it was. So. Lets make a competition. The goal: to make bees suitable for commercial beekeeping. As this is about the biggest forums for at least English speaking tf beekeepers in the whole world, this would be a perfect forum to start. And since it is our competition, we can make our own rules.

What is needed? Well defined goal and method to measure the winner. We need a price for the winner, preferably something more than a piece of paper. I can donate 100$ to start. Some 10 years is needed for the breeding work and 5 years to measure the results. So we have plenty of time to figure out. Breeders can start right away. The result could be measured for instance in three or more places in the world (warm, cold and temperate regions, for instance) by selected beekeepers, who are not taking part. And some kind of average is calculated from those results. Maybe some research institutes or universities get interested too.

If somebody has already started, it doesn't matter, because they must maintain their stock and keep going towards that kind of bees the competition rules demand. And shouldn´t the glory belong anyway to those who predicted the need for resistant bees? Consumers notice this competition and think that all beekeepers are responsible, because we want to have change to this tricky situation and vicious circle.
 

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While it's not a bad idea at first glance, there's an underlying issue here.

Many people find the whole model that commercial beekeepers use to be abhorrent.

Very much like those huge caged chicken farms, ugh.
 

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Many people find the whole model that commercial beekeepers use to be abhorrent.

Very much like those huge [HIGHLIGHT]caged [/HIGHLIGHT] chicken farms, ugh.
What commercial beekeeper has bees in cages? :scratch: :s



:gh:
 

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Bugs in a box. On palettes. On trucks. In holding yards. HFCS and pollen sub fed. High loses and short lived queens.

1.5 million hives from all over the country in almonds every winter and growing.

That's what I'm referring to.

The model.
 

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Maybe we should reward 'organic' queen breeders and producers instead?

At least there's a payoff in the end:

'Organic' resistant Honeybee queens.
 

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The only issue I see is what is the criteria?? That is the tough thing to postulate... one mans good, is another mans poor. There are many here whos queens I would never touch.... Is it survivbility? brood size? honey production??

So establishing what the criteria for a commercial beek to be pleased is your first task.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The only issue I see is what is the criteria?? That is the tough thing to postulate... one mans good, is another mans poor. There are many here whos queens I would never touch.... Is it survivbility? brood size? honey production??

So establishing what the criteria for a commercial beek to be pleased is your first task.
Jep, it is difficult. But of course there might be several classes, one for honey produces, one for package producing beekeepers... but this makes it much bigger.
What I was thinking is something of a waking up thing for beekeepers and for the public. We know that there is no such thing as the best honeybee for everybody.
 

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Bugs in a box. On palettes. On trucks. In holding yards. HFCS and pollen sub fed. High loses and short lived queens.

1.5 million hives from all over the country in almonds every winter and growing.

That's what I'm referring to.

The model.
I like that "The Model" Accurate and to the point.
 

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Juhani, that's a pretty difficult standard. Not only would we have problems in defining a successful bee, there's no agreement on what constitutes a commercial beekeeper.

If you ask the guys over in the commercial forum, Tim Ives with 150 hives is not commercial. Michael Bush with 200? No.

Another complication is trying to decide the relative importance of bee genetics and cultural practices. Those who have succeeded in having productive treatment free operations have all sorts of bees from all sorts of sources. I'm beginning to think that genetics, while part of the solution, may not be the most important factor.
 

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Maybe we should reward 'organic' queen breeders and producers instead?

At least there's a payoff in the end:

'Organic' resistant Honeybee queens.
The likelihood of that happening is about as likely as all those diamond dealers in your neighborhood selling at a loss to gain market share 100 years from now. :kn:

How many $50 queens did you buy last year to support this effort with your own wallet?
 

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Do you mean BeeWeaver?
No I don't. Not close enough to be rich enough to bet a lunch in Times square vs a good crab dinner on the SF wharf as to whether Weavers are "organic" or not. If I was you'd be on!!!!

So do you want to call Laura tomorrow and confirm with her that she's willing to sit and confirm in a deposition that they only use organic sugar for feed, never use tylosin or TM and keep 100% of their bees 100% of the time in an area that is 100% certified organic........... or do you want me to? I suppose I'll have my answer by ? Lets say .... I'm thinking never!!!!!!! Doubt her lawyer husband would let it happen even if it was true!!!! If you hear otherwise send me a copy of the paperwork.:waiting:
 

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I'm not sure why you're casting stones?

I like a lot of things about BeeWeaver.

Is there such a thing as an organically certified Honeybee queen?

You could always go on their website to see what it says.
 

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> I'm not sure why you're casting stones?

Perhaps Honey-4-All is responding to the subject that WLC first brought up ...
Maybe we should reward 'organic' queen breeders and producers instead? At least there's a payoff in the end:

[HIGHLIGHT]'Organic' resistant Honeybee queens.[/HIGHLIGHT]




:gh:

... where do you get those anyway ....
.... 'organic' .....
 
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